I've tapped out of the reviews for a while now because I haven't had much to say but I just want to say how wonderful it is that there's still so much genuine, thoughtful discussion about the issue of Optimus Prime in these issues, especially because in the grand scheme of things it isn't too important to the overall plot. It's a very thought-provoking storyline.

 

It does, because it's basically boils down to the concept of being alive. A religious person (generalising here) would say a human has a soul and without the soul you're not alive. This is akin to the spark concept of BW or the shard of Primus' in Furman's run. In that concept the copy wouldn't be alive, neither you nor PMOP. A non-religious person would say you are the sum of your knowledge and experiences and as long as that is copied, there's no difference in the eyes of a non-religious person.

Furman's greatest contribution is perhaps that he introduced religion to Marvel's TF universe and in doing so changed the concept of what a TF is. (And for me, he made Optimus Prime interesting.)

Well, you could argue that the Crystal contained Hoist his spark, but that would be retconning. Issue is of course that the whole later idea, be it sparks or a fragment of Primus (which could easily be the same), then there are several things that don't work out. The whole creation matrix transfer to Buster for example, or the Stunticons getting life through an upload link. And similarly, PMOP would then indeed be a mere copy, and an imperfect one because it would only be the mind, the memories, but not the spark/life essence. More of a very advanced automaton than a living Transformer. And only when the merge with HiQ happens does Prime become alive again, but this time as an organic.

and I'm glad you did, because you raise some interesting points. Most notably about painting Optimus his death by computer game, a much ridiculed event, in a far more positive light. Adding the UK material does indeed make clear that OP suffered from guilt from the start: crashing the Ark seemed the best idea, but then waking up and finding that the planet now holds intelligent life that can't defend themselves sufficiently and one of them is tortured to help the Decepticons (and his troops are angry that this human gave in)...although never mentioned in the US run, it's within his character that this would cause him great guilt. Then he's captured and used to create new Decepticons and a forced witness to the Decepticons enslaving humans. More guilt. The war on Earth is a disaster for the Autobots with casualties, not even enough parts to fix them and at the beginning fuel shortages. Adding the UK material, and it's indeed a very good explanation that he was eager to die to be free of this guilt.

Maybe he indeed embraced the video game persona, because it made his life more simpler. I always interpreted his becoming alive again due to the experience of dying anew awakening memories that were inaccesable before. And once alive again, he realised that the living death as a game character was indeed worse. This would also fit with Budiansky's approach of very advanced AI programming, i.e. as a computer game he wasn't alive because he didn't have access to his full programming, the part that made him alive.

That page you posted, is actually one of two UK stories we got in the Netherlands as filler behind large issues (at least I think it was two, maybe this was the only one?) And yes, reading that Optimus came to realisation that the reason he protected Earth was because he was responsible for bringing the war here, was a great find. It improved the character to me.

 

I always got the impression that Hoist and co. existed elsewhere and the crystals created facsimiles.

"ALLOWED me to copy" makes it morally acceptable or not weird among the Transformers. Like in Star Trek, they model the EMH programs after real doctors in service so that effectively there are hundreds of any given person running around performing surgery.

So Grapple was probably like "sure, you can take my skills and knowledge with you, but I'm sticking around here to fight the good fight at home, good luck," and that's not a problem. Kind of dark and fascinating because he and the others probably died in the 4 million years the Ark was dormant, only to be "revived" as the shadows we knew on Earth.

It's like if we could create a perfect AI of Einstein to ask for advice, most people would probably be alright with using it for pragmatic purposes but would think you're crazy if you tried to say it really was Einstein, because it obviously isn't, we just say so for conversational ease. I feel that's the difference between the 1985 cars and Optimus Prime.

 

Aaaand we’re back.
Transformers Marvel US #44 is live to discuss.
“The Cosmic Carnival”
Roll out!

 

I remember this issue really vividly. It might be because it finally continued the "Spacehikers" story arc, but it's just as likely that I remember it because the idea of a carnival in outer space is really memorable.
Observations:
-Powermaster Optimus Prime gets a lot to do in this comic, pretty much single-handedly rescuing Sky Lynx and the kids from the circus.

-The idea of Sky Lynx and the kids being forced into working as circus performers is great, but it does raise a question. They're in debt because they didn't pay for tickets, but without tickets, how did they get into the carnival in the first place? The kids might've been able to sneak past the ticket holder, but there's no way Sky Lynx could've snuck in without being seen. Also, how much do those carnival tickets cost? They seem to have been working at the circus for weeks if not months. Then again, Big Top (the guy who owns the circus) is a shady fellow, so it's entirely possible that he jacked up the price in order to get free performers.

-Big Top looks like a greener, goopier version of Jabba the Hutt, and appropriately has all of his morals (or lack thereof).

-Berko is an interesting character, but what are the odds that the Cosmic Carnival would essentially kidnap humans on two separate occasions in less than thirty years considering the vastness of space?

-And then there's this guy:

(image from TFWiki)
Rorza, the Rocket-Cycle Racer from Rigel III! That's a hilariously stupid name, with good use of alliteration to boot. Also, points to him for guts, I guess.

-Goldbug also gets some stuff to do in this issue-and give Big Top an appropriate fate-which is nice.

-Come back next time for the finish of the Spacehikers plot and the start of a plot even more insane than this one! (One thing I will say for these bonkers issues...they're definitely easy to remember!)

 

LW hit all of the big points, but I just wanted to mention that I really like the visual of the circus itself.

 

At this point we have definitely left the real world feel of the book. But we were loong overdue for the conclusion to the Spacehikers story. In ish 41 when Blaster mentions “no ones heard from them in who knows how long” I felt that.

 

#44 The Cosmic Carnival

While en route from Nebulos back to Earth and informing the Nebulans about Cybertron, the crew receive an advert from a cosmic carnival. Seeing one performer is an Autobot, they go to investigate. Once there they find the human children that befriended Blaster. We learn that they made Sky Lynx go to the Carnival and once there they all signed a contract to pay for admission. After convincing their human handler, Berko, Optimus and Goldbug free Sky Lynx and the children and lock up the big boss of the Carnival.


I don’t like this issue. No, let me say this more correctly: this in my opinion is the worst issue of the Marvel US run. Forget “Buster Witwicky and the Car Wash of Doom”, because as I pointed out when discussing it, Carwash has many things going for it (part of a bigger story, some nice character work, continuity and an interesting Decepticon plan). Carnival lacks all these things – there’s a bit of continuity, but it’s redundant. Of course, Carnival is meant as a fun filler story, not to be taken seriously, but even rating it like that, I dislike it. Maybe it’s because carnivals like this are not something I’m familiar with (or cared for the variant that I did experience), or maybe there are too many things that annoy me.

Let’s start with the art which is done by Frank Springer. The last time he held art duties was for The Headmasters. Back then I lamented the many art errors (while praising the energy the art conveyed), but we chalked it up to being forced to handle a large amount of new, unfamiliar characters all at once. This issue does not have that excuse, since we only have a handful of Transformers (and only three are more than background filler), while the rest are organic creatures of his own design. Yet, the TF art is problematic. While Goldbug and Sky Lynx fare pretty well, Optimus Prime is drawn in his original design, while it should of course be the new powermaster body (more curved, different windows in robotmode, has different coloured lower arms (not Springer his mistake) and fewer wheels). HiQ also suddenly had grown some hair and of course the powermasters and armour shown have several errors (HiQ’s wrong and suddenly Hi-Test has joined the Autobots). Perspective in several shots is also very wonky.

Storywise...I have probably even bigger issues. The whole issue is a mess. First, while they are in great haste to rescue the Autobots stranded on Earth’s moon, when they see an Autobot listed as a performer in the circus they immediately divert. Great sense of priorities. Is it really so impossibly strange that an Autobot (especially such an egocentric narcist as Sky Lynx) would be a performer in a Carnival? And if getting into this Carnival means paying admission (and they make it a point of saying only OP and GB could get in), then how did Sky Lynx and the children get in? And how stupid is Sky Lynx to sign this contract, which is very clearly set up to keep them in debt forever. And why is this contract suddenly no longer an issue at the end? I also think Berko’s change of heart is too quick or even warranted at all. And how can Optimus survive and be active without HiQ for the duration of these events? A powermaster can spend some time without the Nebulon, but although no time frame is mentioned, this story must spread out over at least several hours and he is active in combat like moments.

This issues' only positive is that it tells us what happened to the children, but at the same time I’m wondering why this should even be a story. For all I care Sky Lynx dropped them off on Earth and The End (and with the Grimlock lead Autobots having left Earth, they wouldn’t have known). There was no need for this continuity and it does not contribute. It’s a filler issue and a very flawed one at that. I utterly disliked it in the 80’s (I even preferred the cartoon adaption of the previous issue, and that doesn’t fit in the US run, and would’ve preferred another one of those over this issue), and I dislike it even more now. Low(est) point in the Marvel US run for me.

 

Although I did enjoy this story, what didn't sit right with me was that the Autobots were a bit biased with who they rescued. The humans and the other Autobot. What about all those other aliens (some probably children too) that were being held captive against their will?
I'd have thought that Optimus Prime might think that freedom was a right of ALL beings or something...

 

@MattDallas good point. He is very selective in his rescue. Then again, it was impossible to rescue them all. Then again, I kind of want a follow up story in which an intergalactic bounty hunter is set on the trail of Sky Lynx and the children for breaking their contract, and on OP and GB for violating a legally binding contract.

 

Transformers Marvel US #45 is live to discuss.
“Monster-Con from Mars.”
Roll out!

 

Another really weird issue that's memorable simply because of its sheer craziness. Skullgrin becomes a movie star!
-The Spacehikers arc is concluded, so that's good.
-As TFWiki notes, since Sky Lynx leaves right after dropping off the kids, and all the other Autobots are in space, Skullgrin's turn as a movie star may have happened without the Autobots ever knowing about it, which is kind of hilarious.
-The fact that the movie director is totally okay with hiring a 30-foot-tall alien robot in a monster shell to be in his movie, and even seeks him out for this purpose, and the fact that the other actors and set people are also okay with this, is totally insane. Do none of these people have any common sense?
-Why exactly did Scorponok send Skullgrin, and ONLY Skullgrin, to Earth in order to get energy without being noticed? Did he seriously think a thirty-foot robot (or worse, a thirty-foot skull-headed monster) would be able to collect energy subtly? Skullgrin doesn't exactly strike me as a master stealth operative.
-The relationship between the female movie star and Skullgrin is actually kind of touching. It's unusual for G1 Decepticons to get moments of "humanization" (for a lack of a better term) like this.
-Circuit Breaker returns, and surprisingly enough does not kill Skullgrin (although she tries to at first, the director who tells her to kill Skullgrin in order to make a bigger profit with his movie disgusts her so much she just leaves).
-This movie director is an idiot. Why in the world would you tell someone that you want them to kill a thirty-foot robot in order to make money right in front of said thirty-foot robot? If she decides not to, or if she fails to finish the job, the giant, heavily armed monster robot is going to be really, really mad at you. I get the feeling that Skullgrin might've killed him after the comic ends...
-This story never really gets a proper conclusion, but since Skullgrin shows up with the Decepticons later, I guess that he decided that show business wasn't for him. (Although since it almost got him killed, that makes sense.)

 

whenever i go back and reread my Marvel Run i always skip this issue, i skip issue's 33 and 34 as well

they were fill-in issues anyway because Bob missed his deadlines

 

# 45 Monstercon from Mars

When shooting a B movie runs into trouble after the expensive prop breaks down, we through a tv report, learn that Sky Lynx has brought the children back home and we are re-acquainted with Circuit Breaker. Meanwhile, the cast and crew of the monster movie head to North Carolina where they encounter a sighter Big Foot, the Decepticon Skullgrin. Skullgrin agrees to be an actor in this movie (being paid in fuel) and befriends the (lead) actress in this movie. This result in him showing his true self and he is subsequently attacked by Circuit Breaker. Although Circuit Breaker could destroy him, he is saved by the human actress pleading his case (after she just got rescued by him).


Delbo returns for art duty and although his clean lines miss the energy from Springer, at least everything is consistent and correct. Well, not counting that Sky Lynx says that his best side is his right side and subsequently posed with his left side. Sky Lynx is also a bit simplistically drawn here. Meanwhile, Budiansky really could come up with these B-movie titles. You just know the story will be bonkers when you see the title.

Like the previous issue another filler, but a whole lot better. The story itself is completely nuts with a Decepticon Pretender becoming a movie star and everybody accepting this tall, talking creature as such. We have some continuity, most notably in the person of Josie Beller (Circuit Breaker) and her quest to destroy the Transformers (and failing again). We see Sky Lynx bringing the children home, although it is shown as a tv report that has no (real) bearing on the story told. Most important from the view of a TF fan, is finally giving the spotlight to one of the Decepticon Pretenders. It’s not entirely correct (Skullgrin is supposed to be a raging, angry beast in his shell), but it works and is very welcome making Skullgrin one of three Decepticon Pretenders I care about.

Most interesting perhaps, is we have another alternate Decepticon plan that could actually work. In theory at least. Sure, it’s a dumb plan and very flawed (most notably, why is Skullgrin the only one sent and wouldn’t a Nebulan partner attract even less attention -- unless they are still unable to take off their armour). But although the end goal would be nefarious, Skullgrin is doing honest work for the fuel. How could the Autobots stop him? Like with Carwash, assuming this fuel actually gets to the Decepticons, they will have gained fuel without much risk and without casualties.

Also, what were the Autobots doing through all of this and why didn’t they act. This take place when they were still stranded on the moon (because OP and GB took a detour) so did they even know about this? And how did the Ratbat lead Decepticon group react to this, or did they ignore it because it was a monster? (or did Starscream block this from them...)

Another big question is: what happens next? Skulgrin was close to being destroyed by a human and was offered up by his manager/producer as cheap furniture. Sadly, we will never learn what has become of the greatly named Rollie Friendly.

 

At least Scorponok is thinking outside the box, I suppose. Who knows? Maybe the monster idol thing would have DEFINITELY worked on Nebulos.  

I think this is the last time we see Circuit Breaker until the Neo Knights business.

 

This issue reminds me of #13. A Decepticon “teams up” with a human. There’s even the obligatory montage of news magazine covers.
Do I remember right? Wasn’t the female movie stars last name something about Skank? Or her character maybe?
The movie stars look like they were pulled straight from Archie Comics. Especially the final panel.
I won’t argue the merits of Skorponoks “plan”, but his whole “no one will be able to tell you’re one of us” line is just plain ridiculous.
Circuit Breaker forgets that in her last appearance she realized there actually are good bots and bad bots. And even though there’s not a single Autobot this entire issue, so she could of went after Skullgrin for being a Decep, I guess she just isn’t as interesting if she’s not bashing good guys.
When she destroys the camera and just leaves. Come on. That’s a major pacing issue with a “what? It’s page 22 already? Ah screw it” ending.
Certainly another one of Bobs weird issues. I think at this point he’s ran out of ideas and sees a VHS box with an old movie title and just tries to create a story from that.
The only good thing is we’re finnnnnalllly done with the Spacehikers. Good god that dragged on way too long.

 

This was a really fun issue, honestly. Not much to say about it, but I was surprised that Budiansky was willing to show a softer side to the Decepticons in this way, and write a story that's just fun. I like that Scorponok pretty much doesn't care about Skullgrin being a popular movie star as long as he's getting his job done retrieving oil. It is also hilarious how Scorponok has no concept of what humans deem inconspicuous. I think Budiansky was being a bit self-aware in these panels.

 

Transformers Marvel US #46 is live to discuss!
The Spark-a-Bots battle the Road Jammers in “Cash ‘n Carnage!”
Roll Out!

 

I'm weird. I always bitch about humans in Transformers stories. However, as a ten or eleven year old, I was like "boy, when are the Roadjammers coming back?"  

Uncle Bob was very good at giving us a semblance of characterization in a handful of sentences. The Roadjammers actually seem like a fun little group. If anything, they get more characterization than the Triggerbots (or Sparkabots or whomever the toys introduced in this issue are).


Again, Zarak has a really weird, out of the box plan. He really likes using social propaganda, for lack of a better term. Weird how he instantly decides that using the humans for various things (getting fuel in the previous issue, using them to essentially hunt Autobots in this one) is the way to go, but I assume that's down to being a "human" (ish) himself.

No real reason given why we have new Headmasters, but I guess that happened off screen.

 

Somehow Budiansky managed human characters to not be obnoxious in TF media. Even now I think that this group is funnier than Furman's Neo Knights.