Transformers Having Bars

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by K2flygurl, Nov 20, 2019.

?

Does Having a bar makes them to human

  1. Yes too human

    12.8%
  2. No

    59.0%
  3. Mix feelings

    28.2%
  1. pluto

    pluto Banned

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    I’m rereading dune for the first time in like 15 yrs atm and i have been surprised at how... not shit it is? Any time a Harkonnen shows up i agree with you, but FH’s whole kaleidoscopic pov jumping narration preps the reader for what is to become something of a scifi Religious Mystery.
     
  2. Spartan Prime

    Spartan Prime Eat 'em up, eat 'em up, eat 'em up.

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    It's fine.
     
  3. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Subjectively Objective

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    Certainly. I mean, I've enjoyed the works that derive from Dune (i.e. art, movies, miniseries, games, etc.) if that makes any sense and I've probably been through some iteration of the Dune Encyclopedia a few times. The entire work seems solid to the point where even the crazily derivative movies are halfway decent even though they're basically less than 30% of what Herbert put in his books. It's just delivered in a format that I find somewhat hard to digest and it's dense on top of all that.

    ANYWAYS, the point is that Transformers bars are there because it's a mass consumption product, not this masterwork of worldbuilding and esoteric science fiction.

    That said - Frank Herbert's Transformers would be a hell of a ride.
     
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  4. Furnace

    Furnace Antroid at a picnic

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    Cybertronian bars are fine, I just miss seeing Transformers "drink" the fuel through their chests rather than their mouths.
     
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  5. K2flygurl

    K2flygurl Banned

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    They drank through their chest? I always thought it was always the mouth.
     
  6. Furnace

    Furnace Antroid at a picnic

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    The Marvel G1 comics (both US and UK) depicted TFs "drinking" oil via a straw-like apparatus which plugged into their chests. It's weird and creative and I love it!
     
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  7. pluto

    pluto Banned

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    I mean yes veering wildly off the point but i 100% agree.

    Maybe this is what wheelie was getting up to before he got found?
     
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  8. Terrorpin

    Terrorpin Well-Known Member

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    Well, Transformers have been drinking since G1. Energon cubes could be seen as big ol' grape smoothies. Or blood. Your preference. =3

    And the concept of bars wouldn't be alien to a race with social tendencies so close to our own. There would need to be SOME place to gather, confer, discuss, and bullshit. I suppose they could've made it a charging station if you prefer. Imagine a room full of teens charging their phones while sitting around talking, except they ARE the phones.

    But no, you can't make them as close as they are to us psychologically and not expect them to gather together like that.
     
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  9. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Subjectively Objective

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    Wheelsatch Haderach does have a nice ring to it.
     
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  10. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    Just because something was done in the original comics or cartoon doesn't necessarily make it good or repeatable, unless you're somehow arguing that taping a woman's mouth shut like at the end of B.O.T. is acceptable.

    Now THIS I like. Relatable yet stressing the alien nature of the TFs.
     
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  11. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Absolutely! I'm also fond of Carbombya!
     
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  12. Nelomaxwell

    Nelomaxwell I gave you power

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    Relatable how?
     
  13. K2flygurl

    K2flygurl Banned

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    This.
    Some fans like to use “transformers always been humanize” as an excuse. Not a very good one since that transformers have also always been alien robotic beings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  14. K2flygurl

    K2flygurl Banned

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    Drinking throw their chest at a bar makes them humans and yet relatable. Them going to the bar makes them human; while drinking through the chest makes them alien. I like things that makes them relatable, but yet alien. Another example would be transformer parents having kids, but the children are built or forged. They don’t grow the same way we do and about 82-96% began their life out as adults and don’t have parents. What makes them relatable is them being kids. The alien part is how they’re born and how they grow ( metal plates unfolding? Upgrading?). That’s how you do Transformers. You make them metallic aliens, but at the same time human. Balance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  15. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    Right but there's different levels. Like, most of them being humanoid, having two eyes and a mouth, equating sentience with human emotion and sensory input, okay, fine, it's all very light sci-fi. However, if a Transformer picks a cyber-apple off the robo-tree and eats it because his stomach unit needs fuel, well, that'd be dumb. Again, it's very, VERY light sci-fi, but if you're not doing anything with the fact that they're robots then what's even the point? Roberts eventually got too far into making up latin nonsense to either get away with them doing exactly human things like having a dance party or things that were different but had nothing to do with them being robots like hand talking or whatever. It's part of why the setup of them coming to Earth is pretty great because you can have them learning human behaviors instead of just giving them latin sounding analogues.

    As far as Swerve's literal bar, it's not even as clever as something like MacCadam's Old Oil House ("What gets a machine loose? Oil! Hur dur dur!"). Instead of beer they have ENGEX and they like it hot instead of cold. Which has nothing to do with them being machines either by the way because Machines overheat just like humans and need coolants it's not like we put boiling hot oil in our engines. Again, cyber-apples growing on robo-trees.

    Something like Transformers Animated is for a much younger audience but features MUCH smarter sci-fi than the comics... And even then it's still light and fun and identifiable and the robots get to do human stuff once they learn about it
     
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  16. K2flygurl

    K2flygurl Banned

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    I don’t know about the dancing being too human. Transformers are social creatures with emotions, so it would make sense for them to dance. Our robots don’t dance, but they’re not sentient beings. However dancing among Transformers should show how they’re robots. I’m not saying that should be dancing all stiff , but able to do dance moves that humans and other organics can’t. Maybe dance moves base on their transformation. Dancing probably came from a social thing for them or something spiritual/religious.

    Also as for them eating the apple- it depends on how it’s done. Eating through the mouth would be too human. Eating through an hatch opening is not. Also what if that apple has energon. They probably don’t eat, but squeeze the energon out of it.

    Ps. I agree that hand thing doesn’t show how robotic they are. Maybe communicating through waves or electric magnets would be way better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  17. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Subjectively Objective

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    You're correct. You and I haven't shared a lot of the same threads IIRC, so I'll put it out there that I'm rarely 100% serious, especially because we're talking about magical space robots. Of course there are different levels. Of course there are cleverer ways of doing things with the concept. We need look no farther than the near eternity of other comics, novels, movies and other things on the subject.

    If we really want to have a serious discussion of this, if you ask me a lot of it has to do with the fact that Transformers isn't a series borne on its own merit like Dune or Lord of the Rings or what have you. It's a commercial device designed to sell toys - everything that's produced is geared to slam that idea home.

    Yes, there are ways to make Transformers far smarter sci fi, but there's honestly no reason to. There really isn't. Older fans are more in it for the nostalgia based on everything I've seen. The big moneymakers for older fans are MP and 3P MP toys that homage G1 - not new, innovative ideas and concepts that change the way we see our favorite characters. Every so often you're going to get a particular fan actually working on the franchise that develops of ton of cool new stuff that expands the lore on Transformers physiology, society, history, etc. but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's also hit and miss.

    I enjoy the thought exercises that come from spelunking how an actual Transformer society would actually work. Some people are with me on that. Some people don't like the feeling that prior Transformers' books are just sitcoms with the serial numbers filed off and robots added. However, some people are perfectly fine with that. Regardless, the ultimate conceit of Transformers is that it revolves around transforming alien robot toys. Full stop. If we get more than that? Awesome. I'm all for it.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that quality can't be discussed, or that the authors are immune from criticism for their choices. However, the usual default is going to be some schmoe that gets handed a directive and a paycheck, and they're going to deliver whatever they feel it's appropriate or entertaining to them because ostensibly their employer has hired them to do something they're good at doing.

    It's a lot like handing your keys to someone and telling them to go run an errand. Some people will do just that and return the vehicle the way they found it. Some people will take sixteen side trips before completing the job. Some will take the damn car offroading - whether the car is equipped for it or not. Everyone's going to do whatever they think is the best thing - either because they find it entertaining or simply easier. This becomes a hell of a lot easier when the person handing you the keys basically says: "So yeah. Just do something interesting and keep these people's attention."

    Which brings us back to the bar thing.

    A lot of IDW's run, especially with Roberts, was not necessarily to tell a "Transformers" story. It was to tell a story, with all it's emotional ups and downs, strengths and foibles with Transformers. This is why a lot of what he did introduce had a lot to do with developing the stories he wanted to tell. Functionalism/Shapism, innermost energon, forged vs. constructed cold are all integral concepts that are firmly rooted in Transformer ideas, designed to convey certain things in a Transformer context. What he seemed less interested in doing was "Star Trekking" it and showcasing all the possible physiological, cultural or psychological differences that could arise with Transformers because that wasn't the story he wanted to tell. He wanted to tell stories about racism, relationships and and emotional insecurity using Transformers. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yes it gets a little silly sometimes, but if done well (and I'm not saying Roberts did well) it's fine.

    Contrast this with authors/writers that really sought to put in the effort to showcase how alien the Transformers are. The Marvel run did it, sometimes to the point of being kinda silly (Skyfire explaining to someone what a Ballobot is and the assertion that Transformers evolved from "atechnogenesis" - naturally occuring simple machines). However, some people want to read stories about Transformers and explore a completely alien society/concepts/whatever. Also totally legit. Again, the Marvel run did a pretty decent job doing some cool, alien things with Transformers as did Animated.

    Is there a happy medium? I'm sure there is. Maybe someone out there wants to tell that story. I don't think we'll see it though. Until then we're going to get lots of really commercial writing seeking to pick the low hanging fruit and have perfunctorily robotic Transformers guzzling away at bars until someone eventually seeks to take up the mantle like Derrick Wyatt and do something in the other direction.
     
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  18. Venixion

    Venixion Its always the middle of the night in Moonside

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    Transformers, getting plastered since:

     
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  19. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    I'll reiterate what I said earlier: just because it was done in either of the original media at the time does NOT make it a good idea.
     
  20. pluto

    pluto Banned

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    Yeah or even....every other continuity by the look of it? Category:Drink - Transformers Wiki (I stopped counting after like 15 or so)