Transformers Haslab Victory Saber Revealed! Crowdfunding Campaign Live!

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Smokie, Aug 27, 2021.

  1. Black Convoy

    Black Convoy Proudly Peruvian Transfan Moderator News Staff

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    LET'S SAY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  2. TranslucentBag

    TranslucentBag Definitively "Graph Guy"

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    No I understand but still the numbers don't quite work out that way as I see it. For one you can't say that they had 4000 extra orders just laying around prior to the extension deadline. Many of these were undoubtedly from people who got hit with the FOMO bug once they hit the 100% mark, as we have seen with all the other Haslab projects. Also you have to factor in the fact that the 4000 extra came in part as a result of the month-long extension. How many of those 4000 would not have been available if the project had originally ended at the planned 45 days. I don't know, but then again no one here does. To be fair, cut that in half and say they had 2k laying around since they had double the time compile those extra backers. However 2000 extra affiliate orders still don't get the project funded after 45 days as it would likely have come in at around 1000 short.
    The situation is further muddled by the fact that less than 3 days before the Unicron campaign ended 1500 orders were dropped in specifically from affiliates and (IIRC) TTMall. How much of that 1500 drew from the, at the time, total pool of available affiliate orders, we don't know.
    Indeed that order dump placed the project at around 60% complete going into the final 2 days, necessitating that Haslab accrue a further 3000 backers just for the project to be made. In order for what you are saying to be correct, Haslab would had to have known that a large percentage of their remaining 3000 had already been logged by 3rd party affiliates as well. Indeed that would suggest that nearly half of the total Unicron backers would have come not from private orders through Haslab but rather from larger 3rd Party affiliate bulk orders.

    And we have to remember that this was only the third Haslab project attempted, so the precedent for large numbers of backers pushing the campaign over the finish line was not nearly as established or in fact a certainty. Headed into the final 3 days the Sailing Barge was already around 90% funded and in little danger of failing. Indeed its greatest spike occurred only after it had reached the 5000 backer benchmark. However their second project--Cookie Monster--had just failed a week before the Unicron campaign was set to conclude. Moving into the final 3-4 days, Cookie Monster had only reached approximately 20% of its required backers and in turn did not see a large spike in support despite needing just over a third of Unicron's numbers. Unicron's poor showing of 40% with 4 days left (or even 60% after the affiliate injection 24 hours later) does not inspire confidence in light of the previous projects' success.

    Simply looking at the available numbers and the contemporary history of Haslab projects, the obvious success of the Unicron campaign after 45 days seems far more contentious than recent discussions have portrayed it. As I said at the time, without the internal Hasbro data, it appears that Unicron would have either just barely failed or just barely scraped across the finish line at the last minute. The extension thus saved the project if not entirely then at least in the eyes of Haslab. Considering the amount of work and money already sunk into the project and, perhaps more importantly, Haslab's reputation and 50% success rate at the time, anything less than a resounding funding victory could have been disastrous. Thus Unicron's failure or even an anemic success was not allowed to happen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
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  3. Zaragon

    Zaragon Well-Known Member

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    I don't know who any of these guys are and I want them all.
     
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  4. Foster

    Foster Haslab Victory Saber Backer #3 Veteran

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    Yeah that's how I remember it, and I'm not about to let weak theory and revisionism convince me otherwise, no matter how often it's repeated.
     
  5. Mccormicks

    Mccormicks This hobby is supposed to be fun, right?!

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    Getting to halfway to the first unlock tier within two weeks of the campaign going live makes me think we should at least be able to get the V-Lock cannon. Which is great!
     
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  6. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

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    it's not weak theory or revisionism. Revisionism is saying it needed the extension. We know for a fact that the non Pulse orders did not get added prior to the extension, we also know for a fact that it was extended prior to the deadline. Go back and read through the Unicron thread, you'll see that what I am stating is what was said by people leaking information during the campaign. Furthermore, you cannot say with any certainty that Unicron needed the extension because it never made it to the original deadline. The fandom was begging Hasbro for an extension, they listened, simple as that.
     
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  7. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    I'm not going to address each and every one of your arguments. There's just too much, and I don't think it's worth it. But a few things.

    First, I don't claim that they had 4,000 extra orders just laying around prior to the extension deadline. I specifically said "even if only a fraction of those...".
    Second, there's not a lot of "once they hit the 100% mark" time to Unicron. It didn't hit 100% until VERY shortly before the extension deadline.

    Now, let me be clear, I don't claim that Unicron would have gotten anywhere near the full 12,000 had the deadline not been extended. I absolutely think they got more orders because of the extension. I merely assert that it would have made the 8,000, and that comfortably, even had the deadline not been extended. I think there are more than enough orders added at the very end (which would have been added earlier, had the deadline not been extended) to make this case, and to make it solidly for anyone not looking out to accuse Hasbro of shenanigans.
     
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  8. TranslucentBag

    TranslucentBag Definitively "Graph Guy"

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    That is fundamentally not true. 1500 orders were added as a bulk order from outside Haslab. Some I believe it was suggested came from TTM and some from an Australian retailer.
     
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  9. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    He does overstate the case. Yes, there were some orders, almost certainly from affiliates, added earlier. It was stated even at the time that these did not reflect the total sum of such affiliate orders.
     
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  10. Huktonfonix

    Huktonfonix Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-9-9_11-48-16.jpeg
     
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  11. TranslucentBag

    TranslucentBag Definitively "Graph Guy"

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    Right, and I address this, and argue that you are incorrect that only a fraction would have pushed it over the required 8k.

    That is not really true either. There was about a 36 hours or a day and a half for people to place their orders after Unicron passed the 8k mark. That's more than enough time for people to jump in. I know because I was one who was personally debating about whether to fund him right up to the last hour.
     
  12. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

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    Ok fine, revise what I said to non affiliated retailers since the Australian store and ttmall were affiliated partners in the campaign. My point still stands.
     
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  13. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    We clearly differ on the importance of these items, but that doesn't make what I said "not true." It simply means you think 36 hours was enough time for the thousands of orders between 100% and the end (specifically, numbers that wouldn't have taken place had there been no extension). I contend that it's not. Again, even if only a tiny fraction of that number was NOT due to the FOMO you cite, there was enough movement to beat the original deadline.
     
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  14. Black Convoy

    Black Convoy Proudly Peruvian Transfan Moderator News Staff

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    OK, guys please get back to the HasLab Victory Saber topic please. Thanks!
     
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  15. Capirus

    Capirus The Gray

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    So dumb question, is the jet mode of Victory Leo just the back half of the combined jet? There was talk earlier that made me think they were different but it really just looks like the butt of the Victory Saber jet.
     
  16. TranslucentBag

    TranslucentBag Definitively "Graph Guy"

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    I would agree with you that we don't know for certain that it would have failed without the extension. If you go back and look at my last paragraph I argue that it most likely would have either failed by a little or succeeded by a little considering the numbers that we have currently available to us.
    I would also completely concur with you on the fact that people were indeed asking for an extension. I personally think it was warranted as well being that budgeting $600 for something as trivial as a toy with only a months notice is asking a lot from a customer base used to paying retail prices.

    However because the extension was granted, one similarly can not be certain that it would have met the 8k goal after 45 days, and that I think is the revisionist story that is being referred to.
    In looking through the thread, I have seen several people arguing that Unicron was a done deal after 45 days and inevitable. This is usually conflated with the argument that Haslab was just trying to squeeze as much money out of people as they could by allowing an extension.

    This "revisionism" (or maybe rose-colored glasses is more apt) is specifically what I'm trying to argue against largely because, from what I have seen, the folks espousing this have been the loudest and have insinuated that all debate about it should be silenced.
    That just rubs me the wrong way, and I needed to break out actual data to challenge this notion, especially when a lot of the evidence for inevitable success seems to be from leakers and unverified internet claims.

    But I gotta go concentrate and make a graph!
     
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  17. PloverNutter

    PloverNutter Well-Known Member

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    Let’s all stop fighting about what numbers came from where in a previous campaign and let’s celebrate that we are less than 4,000 backers away from funding this project in just 2 weeks time. I am honestly so excited about that!
     
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  18. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Zenryoku zenkai!

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    Yeah at this point picking nits about when people backed Unicron is irrelevant.

    It got backed. That's all that matters. HasLab is Hasbro's baby and if they decide to extend a deadline it's only a good thing for people who need the time to get the money together that wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

    They haven't needed to do it since, and didn't do it for Cookie Monster. So clearly there are factors that could contribute to an extension if they saw fit. And whatever those are, Unicron had them when Cookie didn't.

    But that's neither here nor there, as Saber is now 2/3 funded. Regardless of where they came from, they're counted.

    Leo's jet mode is a block that attaches to the V-Star. That's all it ever has been. Think of it like the boosters that help launch a shuttle in to space.
     
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  19. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus I can do this all day! TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think what's confusing people is that the animation model of Leo's "jet mode" had a nosecone (and I believe KFC's figure copied that?) and don't realize that it wasn't part of the original figure and just something the animators came up with.
     
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  20. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    Victory Leo can dock with the rear of the V-Star to form a sort of "booster unit" for a combined alt-mode. So yes, in the images where you see a second pair of wings and cannons, that's Leo docked on the back.