Transformers: Beast Wars (2021 -) #3

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Verno, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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    A) Surprise only lasts so long. Given the number of assailants and the time he took chatting with them, any surprise had been well and truly negated.

    B) We saw no planning, so that's nothing more than assumption on your part.

    C) Are the other Predacons totally without this apparent training?

    D) Without taking a single blaster shot.

    It's all very unrealistic.

    And let us not forget: this is Transformers! The brand of Optimus Prime, with a torso blown half to hell, rising to defeat Megatron. Of the robotic gore of the G2 comics. Of Optimus Prime, with an arm blown off, welding a mighty axe. Of Dinobot himself, sacrificing his mind, body and Spark to save the human race (and reality itself) by taking on the entire Predacon force.

    Show me the damage. Show me the risk. Show the stakes. Walking away from a fight without a scratch isn't my idea of entertaining.
     
  2. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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  3. CryptiniteDemon

    CryptiniteDemon Well-Known Member

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    Hey everyone, you don't have to spoiler tag current issue discussions.
     
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  4. Transmit Him

    Transmit Him Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was absolute trash. Nyx has been captured and is being tortured. This is should be the point at which we (finally) learn something about her, get in her head and actually come to care about her as a character. And yet her struggle exists only to serve Dinobot's story, as an inciting incident for his entirely inevitable exit from the Predacons. One that is significantly worse than it is in the cartoon because Burnham's take on the character is so ridiculously one-dimensional. There's no believability to this honour-obsessed stick in the mud having signed up with this group in the first place, so him lecturing them at length at how much of a better person he is doesn't read well at all. And that's even before you consider that Nyx does nothing to help in her own escape, is a damsel in distress that is saved by one of the male villains taking pity on her and that Dinobot doesn't even directly interact with her. Her survival is almost incidental to his big grandstanding character moment, which is just the same trite rubbish he's been spouting since issue 1.
     
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  5. barry

    barry Well worn member

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    This thread may be more entertaining than the comic.
     
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  6. supernova222

    supernova222 junkion

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    What? dinobots switch had a hell of a lot more depth here than in the show. in the show it was a split second reaction just cause he was mad cause he thought megs goofed up their destination then snubbed him. his whole switch was purely out of spite and vengeance and remains so for most the series. here we see how much he clashes and doesnt see eye to eye with the other preds to the point of actively seeing them as worse bots. this is what actual nuance looks like outside of a 90s cartoon for kids that i think to many are looking at through rose colored lenses
     
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  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    The difference is longevity. Writing Dinobot as a conflicted individual from the start means his character arc concludes with his faction change, rather than beginning with it. The fact that Dinobot left for selfish reasons, and internally operated as a Predacon, were the backbone of his conflict in season 2 when he had to come to grips with the fact that Megatron was right, and if Megatron was right then Dinobot left him for no reason. This is what creates the friction that culminates with his sacrifice as he realizes he and Megatron are ideologically opposed.

    But here? His conflict is so flat yet it designs his character. So he's realized that Predacons are, shock of all shocks, bad guys. It's an entirely basic outlook, whereas Dinobot in the cartoon grew to understand what was wrong with his previous thinking by being with the Maximals. Here his thinking is already correct, he already has a strong moral compass, so there's nowhere left to go.

    EDIT: And I should clarify that this idea of him having a moral compass that points opposite his chosen path in life would be fine were he not defecting so quickly. If they did something like Armada Starscream where the abuse and distaste builds over time, provoking that righteous side that's buried deep within to come out, that'd be one thing. I wouldn't particularly like it personally for Dinobot, but it'd be a direction. But it seems like it was rushed just to get him to switch sides as soon as possible. So now he feels like a character who has little about him, his morals already more or less aligned, verses the constant conflict his very Predacon-like world views caused in the show. Dinobot constantly advocated for frontal assaults, brutal combat, and even shot Optimus whilst the latter was trying to help him up. He respected the victory, but he had few compunctions about what got him there.

    Like a lot of things in this book it changes the formula without really feeling like it knew what the original formula was, and the deviations feel almost knee-jerk. Dinobot didn't display a particularly robust honour system at the beginning of Beast Wars, with it being more about honour in battle rather than in life or actions. This is "fixed" here by displaying the code of honour he'd later die by right off the bat, which on the surface seems ignorant of the fact that Dinobot forged that personal sense of honour over the course of the show due to him being with the Maximals. It did not manifest in a vacuum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
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  8. Robcbh

    Robcbh Well-Known Member

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    Yeah ... The issue should have focused around Nyx, instead, like you said, she was the damsel in distress to help turn Dinobot. I didn't like it ... I don't mind new characters, but if their sole purpose to exist through three issues is to help establish other characters, I think you've missed the mark. Which is frustrating because I defended the decision to add these new characters in hope that they would mean something. But so far have not ...
     
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  9. supernova222

    supernova222 junkion

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    i do agree on some points; yes, his turn came to quick, negating the buildup and circumstances to such a choice. it would have worked much better if he either subtly sabotaged the lense or it was just outright cheetor that saved her. i feel like we wont see him join the maximals right away though. i feel like, similar to the cartoon, we are likely to see one or two major clashes between the teams before that point. it may even be longer, with him as a rogue element for a time. its just the vibe im feeling from things so far.
     
  10. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    I wonder if it's an awkward attempt to deflect criticism by making the new characters so incidental so as not to see as though they're being over-developed at the expense of the existing cast as OC's often are.

    But to what end? Dinobot's character feels entirely unfocused, like they wanted him to be in certain places at certain times and just rushed the crucial connective tissue. Like his defection feels utterly trite when you realize there was virtually zero conflict preceding it that wasn't just lip service. Dinobot didn't do anything to establish his honour, he just said things. The only action he took prior to now was sparing that one guard, but that was it. It just doesn't feel like enough build up given they so pointedly chose to build up when the show did not.

    It's also just... really verbose. I like dialogue, I do, and I'm not against characters talking at length. But I feel like this is a novel with pictures rather than a comic book.
     
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  11. supernova222

    supernova222 junkion

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    i cant say a dont agree, on either point. i agree with the nyx observation also, i feel like they may have pulled back a bit after all the criticism of her replacing cheetor

    as for others opinions on optimus, i like that he's rather flawed so he can grow into a better leader. he and rhinox remind me a lot of kirk and spock from the newer star trek films.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  12. chaosMonkeyPoo

    chaosMonkeyPoo Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually enjoying this series way more than I expected, from the retelling of the original story to the somewhat unusual art. Its all hitting me in a good way right now - definitely enjoying it far more than the other IDW TF series.
     
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  13. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

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    I'm finding myself somewhere in the middle of all this. I'm not particularly offended by the character changes, and the changes are pretty massive. However, at this point nothing has really enthralled me. I'm along for the ride and I'm curious what it's going to look like 12 issues in. I'm curious to see where it all goes by that point.
     
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  14. Robcbh

    Robcbh Well-Known Member

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    Despite my criticism of this issue. I am here ... We've waited too long for a BW comic and I'm definitely not going to give it up after just a couple of issues. Hopefully these early struggles have more to do with them rushing to "set the pieces" for the rest of the comic's run rather than deeper issues of not really having a plan.

    Also, I will say, I like how Tarantulas is portrayed. In the show he was somewhat terrifying, but it the comic it seems like people are terrified of him and Megatron actually respects him. I also really enjoy the art. It's different, but very dynamic.
     
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  15. Robcbh

    Robcbh Well-Known Member

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    I REALLLLLLLYYYYYY hope not ... the moment you let fan reaction start dictating your story you're doomed. It never works out cause fans are fickle. They'll love one character one minute and hate them the next. For the record, I doubt it's the case ... I'm sure it would be difficult to make such a drastic change in such a short notice while still staying within the deadline.
     
  16. Josh

    Josh Comic Color-guy

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    We're way too far ahead to realistically be that reactionary, bub, hah.

    As for too much dialogue, have you read an issue of Invincible? Talk about walls of text. @[email protected]

    Ultimately (obviously), being a reboot/reimagining has its pros and cons. The familiarity can work absolutely in your favor and against you at the same time. If I had a nickel for every "it's too much like the show! "and "not enough like the show!" responses in the same thread about the same issue!

    I'd just argue to give it this first story arc! I feel like it's kinda falling into WandaVision syndrome where the hot takes and fan theories run ridiculously rampant due to its broken up release. Lots of assumptions and hot reactions over a story half-told, in those early episodes
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  17. supernova222

    supernova222 junkion

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    nicely put, that is the best way to think of it, its not like fans havent been doing that for years
     
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  18. GizmoTron

    GizmoTron Roobaticon Commander

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    Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. Everything that's happened so far would have been already planned out in advance, particularly with the new characters.

    Anyway, as far as the story goes, Dinobot defecting so quick comes at no surprise, it happened in the cartoon within the first ten minutes after all. But it's not like he's now automatically a Maximal, so there's time to develop things further.
     
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  19. janeDoe001

    janeDoe001 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. As I recall the only thing about him that was a Maximal (for most of the series) was his activation code (Beast Wars pt 2 and after).

    His affiliation with the Axalon crew was a truce at worse and an alliance at best.


    jD001
     
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  20. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    I've always thought that Dinobot was a lot like the version of Thundercracker that Budiansky described in his profile and then never got used by anyone until Shane McCarthy of all people. He's conflicted, sure, but it's not so obvious. A lot of his persona is built around the fact that he's talked himself into drinking the Kool-Aid presented to him by this draconian society that he was born (built? Congealed?) into. His defection wasn't about some moral stand, but about his own arrogance and general dissatisfaction with the motley crew of thugs and sadists and rejects he'd thrown in with only to discover they weren't as like minded as he had originally thought.

    It wasn't until he joined forces with the Maximals (sheerly out of convenience) that a lot of his ideas about the world really even got teased out of him, and we sort of found out without anyone ever having to say it that his entire might makes right persona was built on societal programming and propaganda. Even as he was being shown a better way, he was conflicted about it until the very end, and the show got a lot of mileage and gently suggested world building out of that approach. It wasn't until the events of Code of Hero, where he was worn down to this bedrock of decency that he didn't even realize was there, that he found peace.

    This Dinobot is already more in touch with that part of himself than the original ever got to be until his final hours. That Dinobot's code wouldn't preclude battlefield executions, he'd see them as a warrior's death! If anything, he'd have pulled out his gun and shot the Maximal himself, because he'd find toying with an enemy distasteful.

    This version of the character is, if anything, less suited for a decompressed story like this. The layers of conflict and baggage the original brought with him have been stripped away for something more stock, much simpler, and that's a problem I'm seeing with a lot of these characters. A lot of that is the dialogue, with it's longwinded and awkwardly worded direct declarations of intent robbing us of any room for interpretation or subtext. And that "awkwardly worded" nature is it's own problem. The sentence structure doesn't sing, it sputters on and on until it finally stops flat.

    And I'm not gonna sit here and say you have your talk-y scenes and your fight-y scenes, and never the two shall meet, but I would love if comics could make a return to the style Frank Miller found in Daredevil and went on to refine in The Dark Knight Returns. When you snatch the dialogue balloons out of those action sequences, the issue flies by a lot quicker, sure, but the violence feels so much more immediate and dangerous.

    I don't know. I sincerely hope the writing here finds it's footing soon; I want to like a Transformers book again, but so far this isn't scratching that itch.

    On a positive note? I actually love the art. Burcham is, in a lot of ways, a natural successor to the likes of Geoff Senior, where perfect geometry and vanishing points are put second to expression and dynamism. You can tell a lot about these figures and how their feeling just from the posture of their silhouettes. The only thing I don't care for is the crazy exaggerated heights of everyone's antenna. Dinobot in particular looks very strange to me, I never read his little Batman ears as jutting spikes.
     
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