Transformers (2019 -) #23

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Issy543, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. rikkomba

    rikkomba Fishmonger Supreme of TFW2005

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    Reframing the argument is not going to change reality. I never claimed to be an artist. As a consumer, I have seen enough comics in my life to know how a well drawn comic book looks like, and this issue of IDW Transformers was very badly executed. We have seen so much better from IDW itself. The fact that the editor approved that page speaks very loudly about the need to assign this license to another company, or at least to a different editorial team.
     
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  2. Treadshot 2.0

    Treadshot 2.0 Action Master

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    Again, you're getting your panties in a super tight twist basically because you didn't like that the bottom panel didn't get more attention. And that's fine. But acting like that's a crappy page because of that is just asinine. The page was clear, every character was clearly differentiable and consistently-modeled, the action was easy to follow, the characters were expressive, and the pacing was good. They just made a different creative choice than you would have. Because of that they don't deserve to even have this license?

    I love comics but I really can't stand comics people sometimes. ESPECIALLY the ones who can't MAKE comics.
     
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  3. UKBrawn

    UKBrawn No arms just CLAWS!!

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    Amazing post, made my day, complete overreaction dude! I hope it gave everyone at IDW a good laugh too.

    That said I can't honestly say I like the artwork on the new series, but I can accept that maybe it is because it isn't too my taste. I don't think simple art means it is worse, Senior had very simple lines, the difference for me here is the lack of dynamic panels and a sense of energy.

    However, If enough people like it and sales are good it will go on. If not they will reboot it. Either way the situation will sort itself out. I hope that all the negativity isn't driving people away who do enjoy this series. There are enough other IDW Transformers comics that I do enjoy.
     
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  4. Nemesisprime1975

    Nemesisprime1975 Well-Known Member

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    This is a very good detailed post and I don't even pretend to know the ons and outs of the industry but I do know comics are in general losing their appeal across the board and its older readers that are keeping the industry going and not kids. It's us old timers who are keeping it going....

    Regarding marvel I want to add that I currently read the star wars titles amazing spiderman and the avengers. The artwork on both the star wars title and the darth vader titles is phenomenal. I mean the quality is top notch
    Spiderman too is also very good. These titles look great and read great. These are big names and marvel continue to produce great comics. Don't forget the first marvel star wars comic in the reboot soldin excess of 1 million copies. It had about 8 or 9 reprints and we even got a luke figure based off the comic. Idw will never hit those heights.

    Yes the talent may be draining from marvel but they are still producing some great comics

    The current idw2 title is lacking atmosphere for want of a better word.

    Transformers 84 has it in spades regardless of whether you are enjoying it or not.

    I know which title I enjoy more even if if the 84 title is nearly done.
     
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  5. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    So the Marvel ongoing Star Wars series was, pre-relaunch, largely written by Jason Aaron and Keiron Gillen and largely drawn by Salvador Larroca, along with John Cassaday for the opening arc (and some other fill ins). Every name I put there is expensive and tenured talent at Marvel. Larroca in particular is one of the few artists from turn of the millennium marvel (early in his career) that has never stopped working on a book. He's akin to a latter day Andy Kubert before he left to DC as part of the cost-cutting exodus, and Adam Kubert. Aaron and Gillen have been been some of Marvel's top writers since the late 00s. But here's the catch - they were all pulled from lower selling books to do Star Wars, or did other books along side Star Wars. Prior to Star Wars Salvador Larroca's run was on Iron Man from 2008-12 with Matt Fraction. Fraction was also one of the biggest name writers at Marvel at the time, but got no new gigs after Iron man because his profile raised with Casanova and Sex Criminals for Image, and he got expensive. Iron Man also sometimes sold great, but quickly fell off. Even with probably the best writer-artist team in comics at the time, it was an average seller. It turns out, being a fan of Tony Stark on screen didn't translate to Comic Books.

    So where does Larroca, a career marvel man, go? He goes to Star Wars, which was one of Marvel's top books for years. And when it stops selling so well (pre-relaunch), he gets pulled off of it. Now days, as far as I know, he's doing covers, limited series and fill ins. Because he's getting expensive, at at 55 years of age now, slower. Yes. Speed of production is a thing as you age as a comics artist too. There are many great comics pencillers who, later in life, start to suffer from arthritis or even posture problems. Physical ailments have basically ended the legendary George Perez's career in the past few years. I'm not sure if you know anything about the competitive video game fighting scene (Street Fighter, Smash Brothers), but some pros have careers that last a few short years because in their 20s... their 20s!... via repetitive stress injury they just destroy their hands.

    Marvel certainly still produces great comics. The Jonathan Hickman Avengers/New Avengers / Time Runs Out / Secret Wars storyline is, as far as I see it, the greatest comic story ever told. His current work on Dawn of X X-men is pretty great too, though I'm finding myself rooting for the Sentinels to wipe out evil Xavier's mutant island. And certainly the names we praise for all comic companies - Larroca , Jim Lee, Alex Milne - all came in the wake of artists that were thought to be irreplaceable and iconic. No. That's never the case. Talent just turns over, new talent steps up and the wheel keeps on spinning.

    Really though, the phenomenon is more a reflection of people "best versions" of almost anything being the version they grew up with. For me, I didn't touch Marvel Legends... zero interest... until they started to do the 1992 Jim Lee X-Men a few years back. Now on my detofls, I have exactly two shelves (out of a total of 36 across 9 detolfs) dedicated to Marvel Legends. One is the 1992 Jim Lee X-Men, along with their contemporary X-Force and X-Factor. The other is 1980s and 1990s X-Villians. Next month i'm getting the Pyro / Modern Rogue two pack Pyro goes into the shelf. Modern Rogue goes on Ebay. I just bought the entire Deadpool wave for Strong Guy BAF. Black Tom Casiday, Sunspot and Warpath go on the shelf. Pirate Deadpool, X-Men Deadpool and Shelik go on eBay. Another example is with Justice League. My Flash is always Wally West. Barry Allen is always the mentor flash who died in Crisis. And Kyle Rayner > Hal Jordan, whose best story was when he lost his mind, killed the GL crops and tried to destroy time.

    With Transformers, Don Figueroa was once considered impossible to succeeded. It took a while, but IDW's Phase 3 and Phase 4 proved them wrong. I may have a special place for the War Within, but I can recognize how great the later IDW comic artists are, even though their art (and the stories behind them) are radically different.

    Which, I think, is the problem with the CURRENT IDW art crew. It doesn't feel like we're seeing Transformers' next-great-artists flowering. It feels like we're getting servicable monthlies with a middling story and broadly amateurish art, killing time until the next-great-artists do show up.
     
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  6. rikkomba

    rikkomba Fishmonger Supreme of TFW2005

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    That's a very good reminder. I enjoyed a lot "Secrets and Lies" and the MLP crossover, so there is hope. But the editorial team from the main ongoing should be disbanded immediately.
     
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  7. Nemesisprime1975

    Nemesisprime1975 Well-Known Member

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    The recent ish secret wars storyline was great. I followed every panel of that. I was glued to it. Great art and great story.

    You feel idw are phoning it in with idw2. It's like we can't be that bothered. As I said eksewhere I feel this title lacks atmosphere. It doesn't grab me like the other idw tf title 84 does. Galaxies was good but the recent 3 parter was meh. Art wasn't great. I'm hoping the magnus story is better
     
  8. axiant

    axiant Autobot paper pusher!

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    Welp, finally here we are.

    Megatron about to MAKE CYBERTRON GREAT AGAIN:D 
     
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  9. Nemesisprime1975

    Nemesisprime1975 Well-Known Member

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    LOL is he the cybertron trump lol
     
  10. deltaprime

    deltaprime The Christian Transfan

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    I mean, if you followed the old continuity, that role was very blatantly filled by Sentinel Prime.
     
  11. Nemesisprime1975

    Nemesisprime1975 Well-Known Member

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    Well he is orange :) 
     
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  12. Bass X0

    Bass X0 Captain Commando

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    Orange Bot Bad!
     
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  13. CaptainButtocks

    CaptainButtocks Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thread here.

    Anyone interested in some of the points around the wider comics industry as a whole, I'd heartily recommend sfdebris Youtube serial Rise and Fall of the Comic Empire, which covers to roughly the early 2000s and "nu-Marvel".

    This comic was too little, too late for me. Why does almost everybody on Cybertron work as a guard and yet none can be found when one is needed?
     
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  14. Lucas35

    Lucas35 Well-Known Member

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  15. Dire 51

    Dire 51 Line Stepper.

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    Agreed. Effin lame. If that were pages 2-3 of issue 1 I'd think, "okay - decent start. By the books tropes. 5 or 10 stars. Passable if I'm feeling generous."

    But I consider myself die-hard on TF comics, and I'm like "who cares?"

    Hopefully. I'd rather see crayon drawings of Transformers from Instagram than this. They're at least enthusiastic and have potential.
     
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  16. rikkomba

    rikkomba Fishmonger Supreme of TFW2005

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    OH MY primus.
     
  17. Nemesisprime1975

    Nemesisprime1975 Well-Known Member

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    This was a good issue. One of the better ones. You wonder when or how orion will become optimus and there were some appearances by characters who recently got new figures like apeface.

    Megatron is becoming more megs like. He's had enough. It was good. Art was fine. Clear concise colors. Not groundbreaking but not that bad. Art is subjective after all.

    A solid C+ for me here
     
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  18. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 Man, I've been here a LONG time Veteran

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    Transformers #23

    This events of this issue are a big deal, and none of it would have the impact it does without the buildup of the previous 22 issues.

    - Once again, this series gives some page time to some C and D-list characters. Chainclaw and Grotusque get a line or two. And since he's a long-time favorite, it's good to see Brawn among Ironhide's crew. Looks like Bumper and Nightbeat with Prowl's security detail out on the street.
    - Megatron, intent on a violent coup (as we'll see by the end of the issue) just walks right up the street in front of a crowd and into the Senate, bold as brass. As a Beast Machines fan, it's good to see Strika front and center with him. And I like how Megatron uses the law to gain entry and dress down Sentinel Prime, all the time knowing he's about to violate it himself in the biggest way possible.
    - Just as Megatron uses the law to gain entry to the Senate, Orion is held back by it, almost sure that Megatron did not come to talk, while still allowing him free access to the building because he has no firm grounds to do anything else until it's too late.
    - Orion and Megatron's discussion outside is well written, and I especially like the line "how a thing is done becomes the thing itself. You will become the means you employ, Megatron."
    - familiar and unfamiliar cassette bots (or future cassettes) are "infiltration troopers".
    - the Decepticons offer themselves as the solution to all of Cybertron's problems. They don't present themselves as conquerors.

    Great issue, and I love the clean and clear artwork. I started out a little unsure about this series, but it has grown to be my favorite IDW Transformers series by far.
     
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  19. Nemesisprime1975

    Nemesisprime1975 Well-Known Member

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    Great to see a positive post about the ongoing. This was a good issue with many nods and winks and references to characters from other continuities. The cons don't want to conquer in the marvel sense they just want to change things.

    Art was clear and crisp too.
     
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  20. Rojixus

    Rojixus I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY!

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    I don't know, I feel like you could have cut the previous 22 issues down to 11 and the impact of 23 wouldn't be reduced in any way.