TransFormers ‘84

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Grimlock528, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. GoLion

    GoLion Well-Known Member

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    I'm in love. More, please.

    What a solid issue.
     
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  2. Necromaster

    Necromaster FEAR ME MORTALS

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    I'll have to pick this up when I get a chance to pop by the comics shop downtown.
     
  3. Shatterpoint

    Shatterpoint Neato

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    Guess we finally got Spotlight Punch/Counterpunch after all
     
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  4. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

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    First thoughts:

    Still woefully historically inaccurate, doubling down on the wrong dates in “Man of Iron” - there were no castles in England until the 1050s. It would have been nice if Furman had corrected the original error.

    Also, the Man of Iron’s ship was said to have crashed on Earth years prior to the 11th century anyway. The Man of Iron would awaken every so often... just because one of his awakenings coincided with a Saxon battle doesn’t mean the ship crashed around that time too - indeed it was established that Stansham Castle was built on top of the Autobot ship many years after the crash. Here we have the ship crashing after the castle has already been built.

    Also, Stellae Cimeterium is bad Latin.

    Shame it pisses all over the U.K. continuity - Ultra Magnus shouldn’t be alive prior to the Ark mission (he was newly-built just prior to “Target:2006”), and in their comic depictions the Duocons were effectively triple-changers, rather than having the ability to split into two vehicle modes as we see here.

    Looks-wise, Guido totally nailed it, and the colouring is very Yomtov-esque. The plot is slight but fun. It’s just a shame Furman couldn’t have done a little more research into both Saxon England and his own previous work.

    Yes, it hits the nostalgia buttons, but ultimately it doesn’t really add to or improve our understanding of the original comics. The Ark was a lure? The clones were the Man of Iron and his pal? Great, but why does that matter, and why should I care?

    This is a horrid cliche in the world of criticism, but the phrase “style over substance” has never been more apt.
     
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  5. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    for the dates, inaccurate or not, he was conforming to marvel continuity. really the only discontinuity is magnus. the man of iron legend? that was a story passed down through verbal lore, those get distorted all the time. the duocons not being triple changers? well something apparently happened in the time between that altered them.
     
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  6. dj_convoy II

    dj_convoy II Remix!

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    I just read it, and while I certainly got a warm, nostalgic rush, I agree with pretty much everything you said. The art was basically perfect, evocative of the era without being slavish to it; the story was rather slight, and sort of... not strange but perhaps a bit out of place. Much like Regen, I'm a bit annoyed when TFUK continuity (for better or worse, the REAL G1 comic continuity) is ignored, and I didn't quite understand the tie in to Man of Iron; that part of it left me with more questions than I had going in. Prime being so... let's avoid too many spoilers and say "pragmatic" surprised me.

    A bit of nonessential fun, for sure.
     
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  7. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

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    I take your point on the Duocons, fair enough.

    But with regards to the dating, you can’t have it both ways. If the history of the Saxon conflict presented to us in “Man of Iron” is as distorted as you say, then why is Furman bound by the 1017 date?

    In any case, the document that Roy Harker reads from in “Man of Iron” is an old written manuscript dating from the 11th century. It’s like saying that we shouldn’t trust the Bayeux Tapestry or the Domesday Book because they might be distorted by ‘verbal lore’!!!
     
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  8. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    the manuscript could have been of dubious authenticity. not saying everything fits neatly, just saying there can be explanations for the percieved discontinuities. hell even magnus, maybe, if this series got expanded, we'd find out magnus dies and the magnus from the original series is him after being rebuilt, thus preserving the "new" 1986 magnus and kind of also retconning a bit of idw magnus in there with there being more than one.
     
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  9. dj_convoy II

    dj_convoy II Remix!

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    The other thing that slightly annoyed me (and trust me, this is really nitpicking; I did enjoy this overall) is retroactive references to stuff like CR chambers and Titans and golden disks. Those aren't Marvel Comics G1 things, and I don't like retroactive implants like these... takes me out of it. Again, extremely tiny, minor nitpick.
     
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  10. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    While I agree that it's usually possible to retcon away inconsistencies, it doesn't change the fact that, when an author explicitly says he's writing to fit an existing continuity, these kinds of things make it look like he didn't quite do his job.

    (I'm not particularly beholden nor upset when UK continuity is ignored, though. Bluntly, it wasn't my continuity, so I'm not invested in it)
     
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  11. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

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    Except that it’s Magnus’ lack of experience that’s being questioned by Impactor in “Target:2006”, because its specifically stated that he’s new. Yet here, Prime is calling him “old friend” four million years ago!

    The point is, why should we have to handwave this stuff and come up with fan-theories to make it work, purely because Furman couldn’t be bothered to read the actual comics on which this is based?

    If Guido Guidi can go back to stuff like U.K. Annual stories for some obscure visual references, and if John-Paul Bove can nail lavender Soundwave and can use the exact same mix of ben-day dots to block-colour the Autobot council as Yomtov did 34 years ago, why does this feel so slapdash from Furman?

    What was his thinking? “I know, I’ll do a prequel to Man of Iron except I’m going to assume that all the established backstory to that adventure was a complete fabrication?” Like, what’s the point? Especially when the historical stuff was essentially the backbone of that entire story?
     
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  12. quickshift

    quickshift Combiner Junkie

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    Just picked it up and read during my lunch break. I LOVED IT!!
     
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  13. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    its no different from regeneration one in that regard. idw explicitly said its not canon to marvel uk, yet some stuff doesnt make sense unless it connects to marvel uk but at the same time things equally dont make sense if it does connect to marvel uk. maybe this was written as more of a prequel to marvel us rather than uk, maybe furman just sucks at going back to the 80s.
     
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  14. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo Revvin' Young Punk

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    Didn't Simon Furman write Ultra Magnus' debut in Marvel UK?
     
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  15. Agamus

    Agamus Not an Iguana

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    Short but sweet, for some reason I was expecting longer but overall I think it's a worthwhile expansion of Prime's character, or at least Furman's version of Prime. Particularly it greatly enhances my favorite single panel in the UKG1 comic, #98 p9 panel 6, with the sense that not only did Cybertron end up a bombed-out hellscape since his departure, Prime's "abuse of trust" in this issue ultimately came to naught. Recontextualizes a lot of Furman's Prime quite nicely actually.

    As for Magnus being 4,000,000 years old instead of an infant, I guess helps explain why Hound trusted him straightaway in Target: 2006, that they knew each other before the Arklaunch, and how battle-weary he seemed in Burning Sky. The Titans are a bit trickier though. My best guess is that Metroplex and co. no longer had the energy to be walking around in robot mode all the time by this era, and Bee was referring to a time when they could still do so.
    I'm pretty sure it's only stated that he's new in his origin blurb. Impactor only asks if "Ultra Magnus will be ready in time", which could mean a billion and a half other things as well. The manuscript was written 53 years after the fact, in 1070 too.
     
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  16. Swerve

    Swerve Well-Known Member

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    From what I can recall (which may be inaccurate, I won't deny), I thought the comic itself just had references to Magnus being "ready" in time for Volcano, too, while it was his fact-file which gave the 'newly constructed and given life using the Matrix Flame' detail. Arguably, they could all be fairly accurate- Magnus may well have been given life using a Matrix Flame; even when Optimus was on Cybertron, it's a bit much to assume that the Matrix bearer trundled round and personally animated every single newborn (indeed, it would make a nonsense of the idea that the Matrix's status was something somewhat secret and legendary - Megatron being surprised in US #5 to learn that Optimus has it, and apparently nobody realising that it's a physical object, and thus the Matrix Bearer's torso should not be put out for the dustman, post-mortem, in US#26, much to the eventual utter doom of this piece of the multiverse (thanks, Regeneration One!)).

    It's just that he was given life using the Matrix Flame a lot earlier than the order of the statements suggests. He subsequently, as proposed up-thread, wound up in long-term stasis, becoming something of a legend, only for Xaaron to dig him out, revive and rebuild him, and give him the flamebait magnet nickname of 'Cybertron's Greatest Warrior' (as bemoaned by him in Regeneration One's best moment) to trade on his legendary status, in order to give the Autobots an edge during Target : 2006.
     
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  17. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo Revvin' Young Punk

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    Head canon accepted.
     
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  18. NanakoPreame

    NanakoPreame Well-Known Member

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    Considering that was 30+ years ago, I don't think you can blame him for forgetting.
     
  19. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    And that's assuming (I do not) that maintaining the UK portion of the continuity was ever even considered.
     
  20. Swerve

    Swerve Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I like the issue for its own merits, somehow I find it hard to
    think of Navigator and the Man of Iron as being Cloudraker and Fastlane, respectively, even if the damage from the crash did lead to them getting patched up with cut-price Kibble-less Jazz outfits. Nice to see Flywheels doing something.

    I did find that I'd invested enough emotionally, particularly with
    the Ark crew's enthusiasm and the way a lot of them had clearly come along for the adventure, that I actually felt noticeably angry with Optimus Prime, on the final page.

    It certainly ties in well with "Distant Thunder", "Cold Comfort and Joy", and, indeed, goes some way to explaining "Afterdeath".

    Think of Optimus Prime as being an alcoholic, only his poison is
    sacrificing the lives of others for the greater good. He once binged in a big way, sacrificing his crew and himself, in order to try to do in Megatron. The consequence of that was that he unleashed the Decepticons on another, innocent, inhabited world. Reading this certainly makes his look of utter horror in US #1, as he stares at the screen and mutters "Life... the Ark's sensors did not detect it here..." when he realises what he's done, take on a whole other level of meaning. He vowed then 'never again'- only, of course, to do so 'again', on many occasions. Most recently, in the Prey arc, he openly avowed that if his sparring with Megatron cost Outback's innocent life, it would have been Megatron's greatest victory. His suicide in Afterdeath, thus, makes considerably more sense. It's not about that either he, or Megatron, cheated, or that it's a game. It's "... I just can't stop myself. No matter how many promises I make. Every time, when it comes down to it... I do it again."
     
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