TR Brawn out at US Retail!

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Awesomepow, Apr 6, 2017.

  1. Late Ironhide

    Late Ironhide The Fallen Hero

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    Thank you for clearaflid [ms] that for me. I just couldn't understand with the changing names when they still could use them. I still think some of them of how in the world could Hasbro lose the name like say Firebolt or even like Fireflight. Also I could be wrong but doesn't Hasbro still have the name of Swoop and Sludge. I know why they can't name Slag anymore but the other 2 Dinobots is driving me a little crazy why not there names.
     
  2. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Trademarks need to be consistently used in commerce if you want to keep them. If you don't use them within the span of a year or two, they essentially become open for grabs, and if a competitor acts quickly enough, you're screwed. This is what happened to "Fireflight". It also works the other way - if Hasbro lost a trademark but then the competitor who held onto said trademark abandons it, Hasbro could get it back if they're quick enough. Happened to "Ravage", "Shockwave", "Bumblebee", "Powerglide", "Bluestreak", "Trailbreaker" and "Hot Rod", among others.

    Considering how many Transformers names there are, it's arguably rather difficult to keep all of them steadily in active use. How often do you expect Hasbro to release new toys of entire Combiner teams?
     
  3. FigureGunplaFan

    FigureGunplaFan Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile, Legends Bee is NOWHERE to be found in my country\'s shops except for Hobby Shops selling him as a set with Gnaw but not with Kickback.
     
  4. Ronbot1986

    Ronbot1986 none

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    Beware Brawn has some bad shoulder paint, green splats. Seen a lot of them at 3 diff stores.  Some are ok.
     
  5. MWG

    MWG Well-Known Member

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    Whats frustrating is that Dollar General carrying mainline Transformers products (at least the smaller size classes) isn't that hard to believe. They picked up a line of 3.75" Joes a few years ago, all had unique parts combinations (no new parts, but those can be rare even for mainline Joes) with decent paint and accessories for six bucks (packaging was pretty generic though). Quality-wise, these were almost on par with "normal" Joe figures in Walmart at the time (I think they happened during a movie year also). Dollar General has over thirteen thousand stores in the U.S., and they hit a lot of towns too small to get a Walmart or where residents are too poor to shop online much (aka towns where grandparents with visiting grandkids during holidays might live). Plus, with Walgreens suddenly becoming a major player in often getting new deluxe class figures months before Walmart or Target, anything is possible...

    +-MWG-+
     
  6. artimus prime

    artimus prime Articulation Junkie... I'm a poser TFW2005 Supporter

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    This is one of the few times I wish I was back home in Saginaw. No meijer's in Pittsburgh.
     
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  7. MartyFeeb

    MartyFeeb Wait... it's a bug?!

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    Remember when Hasbro listened to Michael Bay and decided to use Bumblebee WITHOUT the trademark? :banghead: 

    If I recall correctly (and feel free to correct me here).... the world did not implode on Hasbro. And they made a lot of money during that movie year.

    The idiotic notion that EVERYTHING needs a trademark is holding the company back. I guess I'm just a country bumpkin in this conversation, but I fail to understand exactly HOW that trademark has protected Hasbro. Especially when so many Chinese companies have already knocked off their products in a worldwide setting where these trademarks have absolutely no meaning.

    However, I will concede this problem: if Mattel trademarked Bumblebee, for example, they could theoretically issue a cease and desist on Hasbro (which would involve costly recalls, theoretically... or sticker-placements-over-names :lol ). So maybe the trademark is less about protecting themselves from intellectual theft as much as protecting themselves from court actions accusing them of intellectual theft.

    Either way, I will say the US legal system is once again f*cking up commerce in a very destructive (creative and productive) way. Bureaucracy at work - I think we should just accept, at this point, that only 3-4 TF characters will ever retain their names in the long run. At least until the country finally does away with nuisance suits and nonsensical patents (that serve only to extort money).
     
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  8. Shin Densetsu

    Shin Densetsu I WILL DESTROY YOU Super Mod

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    Again if you had seen the sightings page Awesomepow linked to, it was very obvious that the guy who posted the Brawn sighting at Dollar General was just trolling/spamming their sightings page. Yes I'm aware dollar general had gijoes and legends in the past but really to believe some random guy who said BROADSIDE was there too? No
     
  9. gregformercy

    gregformercy Well-Known Member

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    I don't collect these so I didn't know people hadn't seen them yet. i saw them at my Meijer in Dublin Ohio. I posted a stupid picture in one of my Facebook groups saying I had 3 Badcube Brawnys for sale at $99.99 each. No wonder people were going nuts asking me to grab them one...
     
  10. MWG

    MWG Well-Known Member

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    I admit I hadn't seen the supposed Broadside at DG sighting, and kinda doubted the Brawn sighting. But it made me perk my ears and think it was at least in the "possible" range (at least for the legends-size). Plus there both Dollar General and Family Dollar have locations within a ten-minute walk of home, so it didn't bother me to go check on a decent day.

    +-MWG-+
     
  11. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Hasbro didn't use the name "Bumblebee" "without trademark". They used it without a trademark registration, which is an entirely different pair of shoes. It's like calling a tourist with a valid visa an "illegal immigrant".

    You can clearly see a trademark ™ claim after the name "Bumblebee" on every Hasbro toy packaging released in the United States since 2006.

    You clearly do not understand what a trademark is at all.

    A trademark is used to identify a product, and connect to to its originator. If you hear "Superman", you think "DC Comics". If you hear "Darth Vader", you think "Lucasfilm".

    If you open up a restaurant named "McDonald's", the company with the Golden Arches will sue you into oblivion because they will (rightfully so) argue that you a) are trying to cash in on their good name (reputation among certain parts of the populace nonwithstanding) and b) cause confusion among customers who might think your restaurant is connected to the larger company.

    The toy market is extremely competitive. Call your toy "transforming" and Hasbro will sue you because they will argue that you're trying to create an invisible connection between your toy and their "Transformers". (That's also why they avoid the term "transform" as a verb and instead call it "convert", as otherwise the name "Transformers" itself could end up being genericized.)

    What does this have to do with anything? The trademark issue with Bumblebee specifically applied to the United States market, where trademark law is particularly rigid.

    DC Super Hero Girls™ Bumblebee™ 12-Inch Action Doll | DLT66 | Mattel Shop

    "Bumblebee" is a very unique and strange case. Ever wonder why there was no "Bumblebee" toy during Beast Wars? Because a robot turning into an actual bumblebee animal named "Bumblebee" would be descriptive. It's like calling a car "Car".

    I still think "Bumblebee" posed a huge risk 2007, and it's not a risk Hasbro wants to take often, and certainly not with third- or fourth-tier characters' names.

    Mattel suing Hasbro now is highly unlikely since there's enough precent. Also, in trademarks, I think there's a "first one to use the name wins" rule (with a "... but needs to have last used it within the last year or two" clause).

    It's actually both. Keeping an exclusive claim on names (so everyone knows when they see the name it's your product) and making sure you don't face trouble from competitors who claim first dibs on a name.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  12. Shin Densetsu

    Shin Densetsu I WILL DESTROY YOU Super Mod

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    Again, if you had seen the sightings page Awesomepow looked at, it was blatantly obvious that the guy who posted the sighting was just trolling/spamming Seibertron's sightings page. The guy posted like 10 sightings of stuff at Dollar General.
     
  13. MartyFeeb

    MartyFeeb Wait... it's a bug?!

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    Nevermore, I'm a big fan, and I've read these posts you've made, explaining the exact same thing you just did. So, for the sake of argument, you can say I'm "uninformed" but also well-read in your explanations. (Also, thanks for the clarification on the Hasbro BB TM thing... but my point is PROPER TM. Writing "TM" and not registering it is worth very little in court).

    That's where I'm coming from - from the understanding that Hasbro is a LEGAL ENTITY WITH LAWYERS, not a company that wants to build brand and remind everyone that Bumblebee is a transformer that they make (though, obviously, that's always a goal).

    What does global intellectual theft have to do with anything? The idea that rigid USA laws are hardly enough to protect them from actual losses, as many of those losses will originate from theft OUTSIDE the USA. In other words, spend a million dollars protecting Transformers in the USA, and you still lose millions outside. I simply wonder why you need to spend so much in a market that is already predisposed to be fearful of legal retaliation - and really, you failed to cite a proper example of how these TM and registrations have benefited Hasbro directly (i.e. a case where this actually saved them court costs or won them a trial/settlement). It just, you know, would make you look better to do that, rather than contemptuously explain TM law to me! :tongue: 

    That BB Mattel example is a lot more relevant (thanks). But it hardly answers anything or proves anything. In that particular case, for example, you don't know what Mattel or Hasbro are thinking - it could very well be that neither wants to enter a drawn-out court battle over the name. Furthermore, you'd think Hasbro is protecting themselves from start-ups and smaller (i.e. criminal) groups - sort of how Mattel went after BRATZ. They were an up and coming company, and did not have the legal strength of Hasbro - however, they did have a lot of money, and arguably sold a product that Mattel owned. But again, I don't think you needed to call my opinions stupid or uninformed, considering you don't work for any of these companies and are therefore hypothesizing as much as I am. Legalities like TM are lot more complex than simply understanding the concept of the law - court proceedings in the USA have a lot more to do with projected costs than the principle of "I own this and someone took it!" :rolleyes2 

    Anyway, long story short - you did NOT understand my post or its purpose. I am of the opinion that these TMs are mostly silly in real life. It's like volcano insurance, to a degree, where I believe the benefits do not necessarily outweigh the time and costs of obtaining them. Nonetheless, I'm not stupid: I understand the basic principles of why you do things when they make little sense - because you just do, because everyone else does, and because things like improper grammar do not get corrected if everyone thinks the improper use is actually accurate (i.e."Davis' car" is incorrect, but always used).

    Sorry for going off-topic, everyone else who's reading this! I'll be quiet now!:oops: 
    And big thank you, Nevermore, for that awesome Hasbro release thread you maintain! I don't think enough people thank you for that, though I know a lot of lurkers/guests must use that thread constantly! :thumb 
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
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  14. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    See, when you phrase your arguments like that, with more elaboration and less anger, I can actually see your point. :) 
     
  15. Chaos Muffin

    Chaos Muffin Misadventure Veteran

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    You can still get him for $9.99

    Take a pic of the price on the pegs and they'll adjust it at the register.

    Mine rang up $15 as well but the shelf still says 9.99.
     
  16. stad

    stad Well-Known Member

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  17. Awesomepow

    Awesomepow Well-Known Member

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    Roadburn out too?Nice!
     
  18. Starscream 91

    Starscream 91 Mech With A Mouth

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    Heads up guys!

    If you do find Brawn & Chase at Meijers like me they have a deal where you buy one and get the other 50% off
     
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  19. ultramagnus80

    ultramagnus80 Banned

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    Chinese retailers were selling these months ago for $10. Got mine that way for the first time and could not be happier. No chase down or high price online. And I really hope to get Seaspray soon the same way. Forget retail guys!
     
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  20. Starscream 91

    Starscream 91 Mech With A Mouth

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    Retail isn't a valued source anymore because retailers don't see the point in selling Transformers anymore, why put out something that isn't selling anymore? It'd be a waste of money! And the only reason its not selling anymore is because they've turned away the only people that buy Transformers these days... The collectors. And that happened because they let online retailers beat them to the punch, getting in figures two to three months faster then most retailers (i.e. Walmart).

    Of course I'm not going to say online is the best way to go either, anymore and they are getting just as worse. I mean for example the two biggest offenders right now for me anyway is... Titans Return Perceptor & Kup, I literally drove two hours to different Walgreens on Sunday trying to find them but only found Wave 3 deluxes. Today I go to eBay and people are putting them up for 30+ dollars! And I can't preorder them like I can Broadside & Black Shadow because no one is putting up preorders! Of course preordering Broadside & Black Shadow through BBTS was the only way I'd be getting them, four Walmarts and one Target with not a single Broadside to be found pathetic I tell you. Kind of sad that Target has gotten worse then Walmart, most Walmarts actually try to keep their shelves stocked but not Target.

    But I guess online retailers are the lesser of two evils when I get down to it.
     
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