TM Box with Rubsign?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Tiberius209, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Tiberius209

    Tiberius209 Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys. I am wondering if someone can allay my concerns. I recently bought a near MISB Prowl from EBay. I say "near" MISB because the tape on one side had come loose, but the seller said the toy had been in his mother's closet for 30+ years, she had forgotten to wrap it one Christmas, etc. He was adamant that although the tape had come loose, the box had never been opened.

    The problem, of course, is that since the seal has technically been broken, an unscrupulous person could have changed out the inside components. This suspicion was only raised when I noticed that the figure had a rubsign while the box is the TM version.

    So my question. Is it possible that this is legit? I always thought TM corresponded to the non-rubsign 1984 run and rubsign was the "R" 1985 and beyond run. Were there any TM boxes that contained rubsigned figures? Again, we're talking about Prowl.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. khopson

    khopson Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak specifically to Prowl, but I know rub-sign figures have been packaged in TM boxes. I have some myself that came like this.
     
  3. Huffington

    Huffington Banned

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    Some pics may help
     
  4. Tiberius209

    Tiberius209 Well-Known Member

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    Sure.

    The following pics show the item and the tape that's become unstuck over time. As can be seen, no flap crease, only the slightest of crushing at the corners, beautiful box art. It's a really nice item for the most part.

    The last pic is also of another Prowl I have that clearly shows the position of the Prowl in the sealed bubble. The bubble is sealed and yet the back hatch is misaligned. This was not specifically mentioned in the auction, but could be seen through the window glare if you knew to look. But I think most people would assume the figure in the sealed bubble had no issues and would instead be looking at box and bubble condition, etc. I'm a little miffed the seller did not draw attention to this potential issue. It's not broken, but if I have a sealed item (and pay sealed item prices), I like it to be, well, "perfect."

    Does anyone have any ideas how I could possibly fix this without cracking the seal? I've tried to turn the box in various ways in an effort to get it to fix itself, but the original positioning of these guys had them wedged into the bubble pretty tightly. This must have been a factory error? I'm not horribly optimistic, but there's a lot of knowledge on here, so I thought I'd ask.

    Also, I'm torn as to attempting to remove the price tag. I know it's extremely risky, but I've had success on other boxes I've bought of removing tag bits that were left over from previous owners' attempts to take them off. Mostly, I use Goo Gone and que tips to gently brush off the tag remnants, and I've never yet further damaged the art. But this would be my most ambitious attempt yet with potentially the highest stakes, so I'd like other people's advice or opinions before I start.
     

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  5. Huffington

    Huffington Banned

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    Not sure about the interior but use a hair dryer on the tag. Don't risk chemicals. Heat it up slowly so as not to scorch anything like the plastic. Once the adhesive is sticky slooooooooooooowwwwwwwwlllllllllyyyyyy peel the sticker back. If there is residue still on the box when peeling it back use the sticker to dab at it to get it off. It should come off.
     
  6. khopson

    khopson Well-Known Member

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    So, the Prowl in the sealed bubble resembles the one in the last pic (the roof tab is over top of the back hatch)? If so, I wouldn't necessarily see this as a red flag. There's usually a little wiggle room inside the bubble, and the hatch thing is common for this car (and other cars like it) given the looseness of these particular parts. It probably occurs more outside the bubble when someone is handling it, but I imagine it can happen while it's sealed, too. I know I've seen similar stuff with other MISB figures and, being a perfectionist like you, it drives me nuts! :) 

    Unless someone with more expertise can confirm that rub-sign Prowls were never packaged in a TM box, I think it's going to be hard to prove that this is a repackaged piece. As I mentioned in my prior post, I believe it's more rare, but you do see certain rub-sign figures packaged in TM boxes. I've seen several examples of this, but the Prowl I have is the pre-rub version in a TM box, so I can't confirm with this specific figure.
     
  7. maz25

    maz25 Well-Known Member

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    I sold a few months back my MOSC Bluestreak, and the back hatch had the same misalignment.
    Not sure about Prowl with rubsign, but wasn't Skids with rubsign packed in TM boxes?
    That is a real nice box. I actually prefer the price tags to remain. It adds a more vintage look to boxed figures. But if you do decide to remove it, best of luck to you.
     
  8. LegendAntihero

    LegendAntihero Banned

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    I'm pretty sure it's legit.
     
  9. Tiberius209

    Tiberius209 Well-Known Member

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    Huffington: Thanks for the advice. Will keep it in mind if I go that route.

    khopson & antihero: I'm 99.9% sure the Prowl itself is a genuine G1. I was just trying to confirm that it isn't a repackage, which would make the seller's claim of virtually MISB a lie. If there were never TM boxes with rub versions, then I pack it up, send it back to him, and demand my money back. As it is, I'm leaning towards the entire story of mom forgetting about them in her closet being legit.

    And, yes, the misaligned hatch irritates the stew out of me. It's the type of thing I would ALWAYS mention in pieces I sell, but I'm very OCD about my collection and expect my buyers to be too. I nitpick the hell out of the pieces I sell, but then I've never had any complaints. To the contrary, most buyers say my pieces were better than they expected.

    Maz: Interesting to hear about your Bluestreak. You said it was MOSC, so did you ever take the card out of the box and try to realign it or was that a no-go?

    As for the price tag, I'm still considering my options. I've got a pretty complete collection of Mint Out of Box non-stickered and pristine G1s, but this is the first sealed piece I've bought. This means I have a lot to investigate, so I'm just getting opinions for now about what works best, what looks nice, etc. In addition to the price tag, I'm weighing the whole AFA thing, although that's sure to open a can of worms from what I read on here. At the very least, I'll need an acrylic case.

    Anyway, thanks for your input.
     
  10. Timothy.R

    Timothy.R Well-Known Member

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    i've never heard of tape coming undone and looking like that over time.

    i'm sure it happens, i've just never seen it.

    i don't understand the need for MISB, other than resell value.. but that's another discussion for another time.
     
  11. seanlockyer

    seanlockyer Yours, General Cartman E. Lee

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    TM and R ? Are we referring to the battle scene art on the back of the box ?
     
  12. cartertime

    cartertime Well-Known Member

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    No, the 'TM' above the S at the end of Transformers on the front of the flap.
    The earlier boxes have TM and the later releases came with a 'R'.
     
  13. khopson

    khopson Well-Known Member

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    You're both right. I don't know if it's the case with all of them, but some of the "TM" boxes come with different art on the back than the typical "R" boxes.
     
  14. maz25

    maz25 Well-Known Member

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    I took the sealed figure out a number of times to show friends and take pictures for the sale. It would have been impossible to fix the alignment w/out opening the figure, and it drove me nuts as well.
    I honestly think the entire package is 100% legit. The TM box alone in your condition would be more valuable than a non-TM box in same condition. If someone did that on purpose, they took a loss. It just wouldn't make any sense.
     
  15. Maz

    Maz Square One TFW2005 Supporter

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    The Skids from the TM boxes is actually pre rub, although I won;t rule out transitionals, which is actually what I think the OP has here, a transitional late 84/early 85 Prowl with rubsign but TM box.

    There's no way to say "At this point THIS happened for all TFs, and at that point THAT happened for all TFs", because things were happening simultaneously in different places that do not line up chronologically into one huge tapestry that makes sense. I had a super early pre-release production sample Ramjet in an "R" box when something that early should have sported a TM box.

    Some people like to own toys that remind them of the toy aisles from the 1980s, some people like the fact that an item of historical significance can be preserved in its original state (these people undoubtedly have loose versions to enjoy as well) and sometimes a MISB item can prove the existence of a variant beyond any reasonable doubt.

    Different people like different things, some like sealed, some prefer stickers to be applied, some like Beast Wars, some hate Animated, some don't touch 3rd Party. Very diverse hobby, and I'm hugely thankful for that.

    All the best
    Maz
     
  16. Tiberius209

    Tiberius209 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking personally, if I didn't have another Prowl (I actually have two others), the sealed one wouldn't satisfy me. I do like to have at least one high-quality piece of each figure that I can handle, transform on occasion, and display in my curio cabinet with his autobot colleagues.

    As my collection has grown and become ever-more complete, however, I've found myself increasingly desiring something a bit "more." I'm certainly not willing to spend the absurd money for a complete MISB set, but I would like 2-5 truly unique items as discussion pieces to be the creme of my collection.

    Also, I think a G1 Box in mint to near-mint condition (such as this one) is darn close to a work of art that I enjoy looking at. That's most of the reason why the misaligned hatch irritates me. It's not broken, of course, but it destroys the aesthetics of the piece, which is why I bought it. I'm obviously not playing with it; I just want to look at it and appreciate it.

    Finally, there's an element of nostalgia in it for me. The 1984/1985 group of transformers were right in my "Prime" kid years (pun intended), and I loved the toys, cartoon, comics, etc. I never had Prowl as a kid, but I window shopped for him (and others) more times than I can count.
     
  17. Tiberius209

    Tiberius209 Well-Known Member

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    I assumed as much. Spinning the box around produced almost no movement of any part of the figure. I don't think it got that way by being stored on its side, for example, over 30 years, so it must have been inserted that way at the factory.

    Oh, well. I'm slowly coming to grips with it as is. I think I'll still enjoy it even though it isn't "perfect." Thanks for your input.