TLK opening weekend numbers, lowest of the franchise

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Boneless Pizza, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. backhawkdown

    backhawkdown Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you aren't a law expert. What is the "misrepresenting" of the product that Paramount was contractual obligated to adhere to that they are breaching?

    And it's hard to argue any sort of misrepresentation or misuse when the head of Hasbro retains final script approval and has spent a decade praising Paramount for the movies.

    Please, explain.

    It absolutely does make sense. They aren't sharing the rights at all with Marvel; Sony retains all film rights to Spidey and negotiated permission to allow Marvel to use Spidey in the MCU in exchange for Marvel assisting them in the new reboot.

    Marvel is the one who had to be given any rights to Spidey from Sony, not the other way around. Sony has all the legal leverage with Spidey, Marvel simply had the market goodwill.
     
  2. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    Generally "not that much." Paramount bought the film rights for X amount of time, that normally means they have most of the control.

    Wait, the show? That did fine.
     
  3. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Maybe the robots having more screentime? I mean, who exactly has the toys Hasbro is trying to sell here? The robots or the humans? I think people forget that the movies have to double as toy commercials.

    You mean I just imagined Iron Man in Homecoming then? I don't know how the agreed upon profit breakdown is going to work out for that film, but sucking up to the Mouse is a dangerous road no matter how you look at it.

    Yes, but Sony's not doing so hot either, since Ghostbusters was a flop, Emoji movie doesn't have a chance in hell (and they canceled POPEYE because they thought Emoji was a potential franchise investment...idiots), and to top it all off isn't one of the major decision makers at Sony the same guy who fucked Fox over for years by denying the Deadpool film among other massively-damaging-in-hindsight ideas? I don't even remember his name but he's basically to superhero films as Lorenzo is to Transformers.
     
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  4. Pauly T

    Pauly T Well-Known Member

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    Disney isn't getting a cent of Homecoming's box office. Marvel Studios got paid a flat (undisclosed) producer's fee up front to make the movie. Sony is distributing and will take in profits from ticket sales.

    Disney, OTOH, holds the merchandising rights to Spider-Man, including all Homecoming products.
     
  5. backhawkdown

    backhawkdown Well-Known Member

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    Except Brian Goldner signed off on it all.


    No, you're not imagining it, but I'm curious what point you think you are making. Iron Man's appearance in no way reflects that Sony was losing any of their rights to Spidey and had to negotiate with Marvel to keep them.

    Ignoring what I have written that proves your arguments false, and simply repeating your previous positions, doesn't then make them true.

    Sony negotiated with Marvel to get the market goodwill of the MCU, not because they were in any jeopardy of losing their rights.


    Ok, Sony sucks. Your point?
     
  6. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Huh, didn't know that, but makes sense overall that Disney would trade the movie profits for the merchandising rights - they're really good when it comes to maximizing that merch profitability and it will last well past Homecoming leaving theaters.

    I don't think he's innocent in all this either. He's die hard films no matter what because he was an exec producer for the 2007 film, and somehow that transitioned into him becoming the new CEO afterward even though I can't figure out how. He's all about pushing the live action film aesthetics and after a decade it's really starting to prove to not have lasting potential.

    Lorenzo, Bay, and Goldner. Get rid of all three of them and the franchise stands a good chance of surviving a second great crash thirty years after the first.
    I may be wrong, but only because I don't understand the nature of what actually went down involving Spiderman. Fortunately, this article explains it easily enough.

    Sony is relying on Disney to strengthen Spiderman's presence by putting him in the MCU, but Disney isn't as reliant on Sony to maintain the strength of the MCU in kind. They can easily just write Spiderman out if some situation requires it.
     
  7. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    Sony is not in bad shape at all. Ghostbusters was a relatively minor loss (in the same category as Paramount's Ghost in the Shell), Angry Birds was a major success, and 'Sausage Party' made 7 times budget, 'Don't Breath' 9 times. Oh, and Resident Evil this year had a worldwide take of 312 mil on a 40 budget thanks to China.

    Sony does fewer blockbuster type movies to begin with and is a smaller studio, but they're getting big returns from small budget movies and don't have any flops in the level of Ben Hur (didn't make even 1x budget) or Monster Trucks (1/2 budget!), and only one noted underperformer out of movies with a budget.

    Last year Sony had great box office take but I'd be surprised if they spent a third as much on making the movies.
     
  8. backhawkdown

    backhawkdown Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt Sony is going to benefit greatly by being in t the MCU, but make no mistake, Marvel wanted Spidey in the MCU just as much. Spider Man is their single most valuable character and it was a big deal to them that they did not have access to him.
     
  9. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    If I was Sony, I'd be thinking about where to put my hot tubs full of money.
     
  10. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Fair enough.
     
  11. Swoop Dogg

    Swoop Dogg Hi Yukio!

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    Some of the hate and outward cheering for the Transformers movie franchise to fail is getting to be a bit ridiculous. Go to the Wonder Woman message board if you are that happy about Wonder Woman taking 3rd place this week. Are some of you guys even fans of Transformers?

    Look, I get it. People want Bay to be gone and they want the movies to be rebooted. I agree. The "writer's room" and all the hype surrounding Transformers TLK had me looking forward to Transformers 5 big time. I was also let down big time when I actually saw the movie. I too think it is time for Bay to be gone. But wow. The hate is unreal. You are actually rooting for Transformers to fail.

    I got news for you. The way things are currently going, there will not be a swift reboot. I'd say it will be at least 7 years before we get a new Transformers movie. If that. Look at Paramount's Star Trek franchise for an example. It was roughly 7 years between Nemesis and the Chris Pine Star Trek in 2009. That's not good. If they even do a reboot, it won't be Christopher Nolan (or insert fanboy director here) directing it. It also won't be mostly about Transformers - do you have any idea how much that kind of movie would cost to make given all of the CGI needed?

    I really hope they move forward with the Bumblebee movie. It sounds promising. But with the way Transformers TLK is performing, I can easily see Paramount pulling the plug on it.

    Transformers TLK sucked and I would like to see changes. But I'm not downright giddy about it like some of you are.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  12. backhawkdown

    backhawkdown Well-Known Member

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    Not a chance. This is a billion dollar franchise when done right. No way Paramount waits seven years to get it going again.
     
  13. Swoop Dogg

    Swoop Dogg Hi Yukio!

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    See Star Trek.
     
  14. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    The only way to rebuild this franchise is to burn it down. I celebrate TLK being a massive failure and hopefully lighting the match.
     
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  15. backhawkdown

    backhawkdown Well-Known Member

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    What about it? Star Trek had no significant pop culture relevance when it went into hiatus. It was G.I. Joe -- a brand name people knew but didn't give a damn about.

    That certainly doesn't make it similar to Transformers losing steam with a 4th movie sequel. Not even any Batman film series have made it to five films.

    TLK's failure doesn't reflect dwindling interest in Transformers it reflects dwindling interest in this specific film series. Star Trek's decline in success has always seemed to reflect general interest in the property.
     
  16. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Veteran

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    It's a love hate relationship.....I agree that it'd be about 7 years for a reboot, which I'd be willing to wait for. Yet for all their flaws, the movies siphoned money into other areas of Transformers that have been done well. The cartoons (minus TFA), Masterpiece, the video games, on and on.
     
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  17. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    Yea, I do love that they brought a lot of people and money into the franchise.
     
  18. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    But what happens when the movies stop making money? Right now TF5 has barely even recouped its stated budget across the worldwide box office, not even a 100% return on investment! The toy line is struggling worse than AoE with retailers barely showing any interest in keeping the displays well stocked.

    The real scary thing is that Hasbro doesn't have a backup plan to keep Transformers going because if the trend evidenced by TF5 is any indication, franchise fatigue and simply crummy quality across the board is going to sink the TFCU before it can even get off the ground. RID barely has shelf presence these days. They're still planning on that TR machima cartoon which if the CW one was any indication is going to be a complete disaster as well. No video games beyond freemium stuff that's just pitting existing versions of characters against one another.

    The Bumblebee film simply is a non-factor right now because it doesn't exist. It's nothing more than a promise, which the films have not been good about keeping. Hasbro needs a fallback plan and they simply went all-in with the films instead. What point do they cut their losses and go back to franchise reinvention?
     
  19. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    10 years of being told you don't matter, we don't need you, what you want doesn't matter, it's just kind of hard for there not to be just a little bit of joy in say it biting the director who gave us “They love to hate, and I don’t care; let them hate,” Bay said. “They’re still going to see the movie! I think it’s good to get a little tension. Very good.”

    Every time someone suggested a reboot or hey at least a change of directors the answer was always no. So the only way that there could ever be the faintest hope of any real change for the Transformers film franchise would be for a box office so bad that Paramount would not be able to continue as is. For some people it's just exciting that for the first time in a decade we actually have a shot at change. Imagine if we had to deal with Transformers Energon for a decade because Hasbro was nope, can't make any real change.

    Although I wonder just how long Paramount could let Transformers sit on the shelf. If they had a load of money making big budget films they could fall back on then they could let the series sit for a while. But they don't have the hits to fall back on right now. Just a wild guess on my part but instead of sit like Star Trek I'm thinking it would be more like the rather quick turn around Sony did with Spider Man. Let's face it Transformers has been the only Paramount property to cross the domestic run of over $200 million since 2013.

    Without the long running studio vs fan war maybe we'd all be sad right now.
     
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  20. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Veteran

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    They'll have to start caring about the quality of other upcoming areas in the franchise. I can't see another way out of it.
     
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