Timeline sorta question regarding Femmes

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Javelin, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. Javelin

    Javelin Well-Known Member

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    So right off the bat, I really REALLY hope this post doesn't generate any fights. I'm only looking for some info regarding femmes in the IDW world, because I'm confused about several things. So this isn't about whether you think femmes should be included or not, a discussion about what gender is or isn't, whether someone secretly or not so secretly hates women (I have seen some shit, man..). This is just a question regarding TF history and femmes.

    Ok.

    According to what I think I have been able to put together, here is my question. Were there femmes on Cybertron originally? We know that one of the Primes was Solarus. She is a she.

    Version One:
    Yes. In the alternate universe, we see what is described as a Lunabot who throws her flaming cog at someone. So it seems there were femmes on Cybertron at one time. You remember who I'm talking about, she looks like a female Rung (I am crap at posting images. sorry). Rewind and Minimus are watching her on TV and clearly call her "she", so the idea of "she" isn't crazy hard for them to grasp.

    If this is true, then ALL the femmes who were on Cybertron originally packed up and left? None remained behind? I find it hard to think that there weren't extremely close friends who would have voted to stay on Cybertron, maybe even Conjunx who wouldn't leave their loves. When the war broke out, surely some would vote to remain behind and fight?

    Version Two:

    No. Colonists left with Titans to start anew. The femmes somehow formed out there via the sparks they were carrying (and maybe created in new hotspots). The crew of the LL were confused when they met Nautica, Windblade and Chromia for the first time. Arcee, when she sees the trio, remarks something along the lines of "This I can't wait to hear." The Alternate Rewind had a little trouble with Nautica first time he saw her, (Skids replies, "That's Nautica, and she's a she.") Which leads me to think there were no femmes on Cybertron originally.

    I'm just confused, as there seems to be two differing versions within the same IDW universe as to Femmes. I'm wondering if there has been a final version that explains it all? Am I the only one who's not working out what's going on, or is anyone else confused?
     
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  2. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    All evidence is yes. Galvatron treats Arcee's experiment as similar to the combiner process in reintroducing a biological element lost during the thirteen era. Solus was a native cybertronian and female. If gender had been limited to Caminus you could make the argument it was an isolated mutation. The fact it's in every colony supports the idea that biological "sex" was normal in Galvatrons day. My pet theory is that Nova modified Vector Sigma somehow to stop females from being born based on functionism (in a species that breeds like they do, females are outwardly functionless). So outside of Arcee (and continuity errors) prior to connecting with the colonies almost every cybertronian had no idea that they could be female. There's clearly some kind of "reptile brain awareness" as demoed Iin spotlight Arcee but rewind for instance probably never knew females existed.

    Real world obviously it's the changing nature of the comics. Early days no sex period. These days it's been normalised.

    Big question. What's Anode and Lug's story?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
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  3. Javelin

    Javelin Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for replying! I was worried this might end up a fight on why femmes shouldn't be in the comics or whatnot, and I just wanted a nice simple answer, which you gave me!
     
  4. PELINAL

    PELINAL Well-Known Member

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    If I am understanding this part right, you are talking about when the Lost Light crew met the quantum duplicate and the Rewind they rescued from there. Quantum duplicate Rewind is not the same as Functionist universe Rewind. Quantum Rewind is from the main universe/timeline and female Cybertronians would be new to him. The Rewind that says "she" about the female protestor is from the Functionist universe and female Cybertronians are not new to him. I think that is were some of the confusion is from.

    I think GWolfv2 is right in that gender is something that was native and lost during the thirteen tribes era. Galvatron said that Jhiaxus was looking to restore things lost from the past like combiners, the female gender, and others. As for why hot spots on Cybertron did not produce female Transformers after the colony titans left or why none were constructed cold is hard to say. I can see Functionism playing a role but the fact that it is so centered on alt mode makes me doubt it. The female protestor in the Functionist universe might have been male and become female for whatever reason. There is also the Alyon hot spot from MTMTE #36 that would have special interest to the Functionist Council, and female Cybertronians in the Functionist universe might have come from there.
     
  5. Javelin

    Javelin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but weren't they supposed to be the same universe orignally until Rewind shot Megatron? I know the second Lost Light occurred when the Quantum Engines tried to be in 2 places at once, but Rodimus says that if Rewind hadn't killed Megatron the Functionist Universe wouldn't have formed. So before that, way back before the colonists left, there would still be either femmes on the planet or not. It was the same original starting point.
     
  6. PELINAL

    PELINAL Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see what you mean. In both the main universe and the Functionist universe, we know that there were female Cybertronians originally. And in both universes, native female Cybertronians went 'extinct' way before the war between the Autobots and Decepticons started. But the Functionist universe somehow has them in the modern day whereas the main universe has Arcee and female colonists. So same original starting point like you said, up until Megatron not raising the Decepticons and the Functionists taking over Cybertron.

    Why the Functionist universe has modern female Cybertronians might have something to do with the hot spot mentioned in MTMTE #36, earlier contact with the colonies, or the female protestor is one of other protestors who changed their gender to female. Maybe the Functionist Council found Arcee and refined the process that Jhiaxus came up with? Rewind and Minimus in the Functionist universe aren't surprised that she is a she because likely the news has mentioned them before and word still reached Minimus. That case is kind of like an alternative Earth where some Jurassic Park stuff actually happened two decades ago and the typical person there is not surprised that you can see a living Baryonyx even though a typical person on our Earth might not know what that is.
     
  7. Thelonicon

    Thelonicon Well-Known Member

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    It is also possible that without the war, Functionist universe Cybertron came back into contact with the colonies much earlier, and so females were reintroduced. We are looking at 4 million years worth of divergent history, and we don't know precisely when the Functionist Council took complete control over Cybertron.

    If this happened it wouldn't surprise me if the Functionist Council ended up conquering the colonies and subsequently recalling most of them. I can't imagine they would have a positive view of places like Velocitron (where alt modes are primarily used for fun), Eukaris (beastformers aren't high on the Grand Cybertron Taxonomy), and Devisiun (where individual alt modes don't exist).
     
  8. Javelin

    Javelin Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, yeah. I see what you mean. I still find it hard to grasp that for some reason, before the Functionists came into control, all Femmes either "went extinct" or for some reason left to become a colonist. Like...ALL of them. But I suppose they have to work with the fact that the original cartoon decided that little girls wouldn't like TF and so everyone had to be a guy.
     
  9. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    Sadly it's more working with the pretty big clamp Furman placed on things when he tried to portray them as an asexual race back in spotlight Arcee. Cool sci-if concept that lacked some forethought imo. I'd love to see the idea of no sexes on cybertron be explored in the modern light but I doubt it ever will be. Be neat though if the new hot spot from redemption produced some females
     
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  10. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    My idea with the female ring is she's a colonist. We see Hot Shot as well and he's a city speaker. So I'm thinking cybertron reconnected with the colonies.
     
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  11. Javelin

    Javelin Well-Known Member

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    So what I'm really getting from this is that there IS no one true history. No one REALLY knows what the original story is supposed to be.

    I can live with that :) 
     
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  12. kyPRIME

    kyPRIME Banned

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    YouTube:
    the true history is very simple, you see female looking bots in IDW Transformers for the exact same reason that you see a main trio of black, asian and white(in most cases one of them being fat, one female and one male) characters in every Disney live action show
     
  13. Murasame

    Murasame

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    At first there was no gender and introduced with Arcee due to Jihaxus' experimenting on her. That was later retconned, so yes, the females existed before on Cybertron. In MTMTE once they said there was a difference in the sparks between male and female, that was also retconned in the trade later.
     
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  14. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    Still a mistake imo. I really whenever tfn are treated as having a biological component.
     
  15. Murasame

    Murasame

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    I would not look at it as them having a biological component. If I were to assume they were previously made by Quintessons as consumer goods and military hardware, it would make sense for them having robots that appear to be male or female humanoids, to appeal to the customers, as most of their customers were humanoid in appearance.

    Well, as we don't know the origin of them in IDW, I cannot say if it makes sense for them or not. But it appeals to me as a reader. However, the OP asked for this thread to not be about the pros or cons about them having genders, just the history of it.
     
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  16. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    My thinking is that the females always existed on Cybertron but the frames did not express an obvious gender like Jahkius did with Arcee. Arcee as Jahkius said had been always female. I think Lug's is more typical where her frame does not look female.
     
  17. Girl Pants

    Girl Pants aka brickonator

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    I've had some thoughts along that line. Once they started making bots contructed cold, their bodies were completely up to whoever built them. You could easily imagine a number of sparks that were "supposed" to be one way or another got put into bodies that suited those in power at the time (like with the MTOs) regardless of what their bodies would have been if they formed "naturally" by forging.

    So even though Getaway was put in a male body with car-like parts, maybe he'd have been a female animal headmaster under other circumstances.

    It's a bit of a horror story in a way to think that you were born into a body someone chose for you rather than whatever you were "supposed" to be naturally.
     
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  18. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking Spinister being female avatar and guessing it was him when the Holo avatar was trying to assign a gender, I believe the copter is cold constructed. Both Cyclonus and Tailgate have female avatars but I tend to think the system is picking up them as female leaning. Unless that person picks out the avatar it is more subconscious thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
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  19. Murasame

    Murasame

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    I think they pick up the avatar consciously. That's why Tailgate was mistaken in using a baby, as this would just equal him in age to a human, but he in fact is not a baby. Cybertronians don't have infancy.
     
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  20. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    What I mean is biology as in not constructed (my fav line in Prime is that mech is dealing with biology not technology). They're not tools, they are a species. Organs not just parts etc. I love how forging involves literally growing an alt mode from your body. It makes them people in a very natural way. So there being a difference in male and female sparks both makes sense to me and is just a great idea. Things like that or the fact they not only constantly reject people calling them robots but also build their own artificial intelligences they themselves see as robits makes it all more real to me then then any of the other creation stories in the fiction.
     
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