'TILL ALL ARE ONE - What does it mean?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by batfan007, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    "Till All are One" has become a famous saying in various Transformers media.

    My questions are:

    1.What do you think Prime meant when he said it as he removed the Matrix before he died in the 1986 movie?

    2. What do you think the phrase means in a more general sense when applied to all Transformers media (it crops up in various different shows, movies, comics etc)

    3.What do you interpret to be the literal meaning of the phrase, and what to you is the symbolic meaning of the phrase?

    4. What does "Till All Are One" mean to you on a more personal level, regardless of what it actually means, or what the writers intended (just leave this Q out if already covered in your previous answers, or add in anything you like that doesn't fit those Q's but is relevant to the overall topic).

    [​IMG]
     
  2. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Peace.

    Reintegration. The wall coming down.

    I did not realize there was any question about this.
     
  3. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    I always felt it was a bit ironic that it could easily be interpreted as: till Unicron eats us all :lol 
     
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  4. Susha

    Susha Well-Known Member

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    Till all are one can be seen as religious scripture. As with all religious scripture if u want the philosophical meaning u need to decodify it tounderstand its pragmatic meaning.

    1. Prime is refering to peace imo, to a world without factions. Something down the lines of Lennon's imagine.

    2. Same thing in a wider sense, peace harmony, no factions, a unified 'race' without internal divisions?

    3. It can be seen as reference to tf paradise (or whatever they have). Basically something like 'see u on the other side bro'

    4. In tf mythos it could refer to the matrix and its power to store the memory of all cybertronians and thus a keeper of tf history. This also sort of emplies the matrix may have a final scope, where all memories/lives are one. So if u put 3 and 4 together, they will be 'one with the matrix' when they die
     
  5. GR1ML0CK

    GR1ML0CK Dinobot Commander

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    I got this one. This, what we see around us, our bodies, the earth, all of creation isnt real. We all are one with everything and everyone in the whole universe. In the end we will all literally be ONE. That is what is meant by that line and for me it holds a deep spiritual meaning. All this left vs right, black vs white, red vs blue, me vs you is all a lie. So let love destroy hate and any and all grudges dissapate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2016
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  6. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    I absolutely love the idea of there one day being revealed there to be an alternative sinister interpretation of this phrase and something kind of dark about Primus in general. I suspect the way Idw is being wrote in mtmte/lost light this could actually happen one day.
     
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  7. Starscream 91

    Starscream 91 Mech With A Mouth

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    I always saw it as when Optimus said "Till All Are One" he meant till all have passed on and into the Matrix/into the Afterlife.

    Kind of like his farewell to those still alive and telling them he shall see them again in afterlife.
     
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  8. FortMax123

    FortMax123 Well-Known Member

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    Both of these quotes seem to implies that Prime said "Goodbye, till you die. Then you'll see me again."
     
  9. simonsays

    simonsays Well-Known Member

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    I see it as if he says:

    Listen up autobots, we are the good guys, and we will have to keep on fighting so that everyone will join us, everyone becomes good, then we can say: we are all one.

    Sounds like a dictator to me lol
     
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  10. Starscream 91

    Starscream 91 Mech With A Mouth

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    Thats pretty much how I saw it and how it makes sense to me.
     
  11. Murasame

    Murasame

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    I think in it's first occurence it is probably meant as something like "Till we all are united", as in Cybertronians live in peace together. Or they meant it like "We'll meet again in death" and in later occurences, when they all have joined the allspark again.
     
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  12. Omega_Optimus

    Omega_Optimus Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much spot on for me! Perhaps the next stage of life...if there is one, will be where the many transcend into the one consciousness.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2016
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  13. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

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    I remember when I was little, I though that it meant "until everyone is on the same side," and I thought that the Autobots and Decepticons having to fight Unicron together meant that that had "happened." I was interpreting, I think, Prime's line - "Until that day... til all are one..." - not as the two statements its probably supposed to be ("Until that day" referring to the day of prophecy when the Matrix is opened, and "when all are one" being a second time) but one statement, meaning that the day the Matrix was opened was the day that everyone would be one, and per my reading of it, that was what had happened at the end of the film. Matrix opened on the same day everyone fought Unicron together. Made sense to me.

    I think, realistically, the line is and was always supposed to refer to everyone being dead and united in the afterlife. It makes a TON more sense NOW, when we have the concept of the Allspark, the carefully-explained mechanics of which have made it clear that everyone goes there, and everyone loses their individuality and becomes as one group intellect. Didn't make as much sense back in the day when the Matrix was only shown to hold the lifeforces of past leaders - and wasn't even shown to do that in the film. The line has its origin in an earlier draft of the movie, when Prime didn't pass on the Matrix, but his own "life spark," which became one with Ultra Magnus's - Prime literally SAYS "Until all life sparks are one!" in this version - and THAT makes the idea make a lot more sense in that context than it perhaps did in isolation in the finished film.
     
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  14. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    Always thought it meant "Until all Cybertronians return their memories/sparks to the Matrix/Allspark." I mean, that IS the inherent definition of a "matrix": "a rectangular array of quantities or expressions in rows and columns that is treated as a single entity and manipulated according to particular rules."
     
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  15. moreprimeland

    moreprimeland Optimus told me to do it! Moderator

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    Several Posts edited or deleted... bringing any comments regarding religion(s) never ends well and also is in violation of our Rule 3.

    3. No Politics, Religion or Abortion
    This includes signatures, user titles and avatars. Political jokes and links to news stories with a political nature are also off limits.
     
  16. Fallout

    Fallout Well-Known Member

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    i always took it to mean until the transformers know peace and are one united race again, but i guess everybody dying and going to heaven is another way to interpret it, lol.
     
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  17. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    What's a Primus? There is no Primus in the Sunbow cartoon and movie.
     
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  18. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    And there never will be as far as the Sunbow cartoon is concerned, that bitch has superpowered anti-retcon armor.
    But i too have had the idea that it woul be intetesting if Unicron represented death and Primus strife or something like that instead of their usual shtick, meaning the only escape from war and suffering is death and the only way to escape death is to keep fighting.
    It would fit in well with the melodrama of MTMTE i think.
    I could stomach them being introduced as Gods in IDW if they did them like that i think.
     
  19. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    I find it interesting that (it may have) grown beyond it's original idea around Bot, and while the first instance of the phrase may have more limited meanings, the later additions over the years in various fiction does seem to include non-transformers life forms including organics, and Prime as protector of life, peaceful warrior etc seems to have become more of a recurring theme and part of the character in most fiction.
     
  20. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    In the Marvel US Comics (or was it Regen, I forget)... there was a story where the Matrix was in Thunderwing it became corrupted by him, in the story it had some kind of sentience and started to have dark desires for new experiences, having only known autobots / primes beforehand, the new knowledge made it do some crazy things, including creating a world ending MacGuffin. Also years later IDW did a similar thing in a story with Galvatron, which was not about the Matrix, but had a similar evil energy being trying to destroy everything story, that looks to me like it was influenced by that Marvel story, as there quite a few similarities.

    What I like about Primus and Unicron is that they can and do work on several levels.

    Unicron is the force of Destruction, or entropy and/or the Devil, take your pick. But while Unicron fears the Matrix (and by extension Primus) Unicron is also like techno-natures natural recycler.
    Being a copy and paste of Galactus from Marvel's Fantastic Four (with Galvatron instead of Silver Surfer as his rebellious herald) - Galactus is established in the Marvel U as a natural and necessary force. Like an apex predator at the top of the food chain, without him eating stuff, worlds / galaxies may become over populated, out of balance etc.

    Primus as creator can be as literal creator of Transformers, or symbolic as a God. But if you look at the fiction (from Furman) he established that were energy beings that took on physical forms.

    I think Primus also works as a purely non-physical energy being, who may or may not exist, that is part of the Transformers beliefs and ritual practices.
    For the toy, I love that he Transforms into Cyberton, that is just so cool, even if a biy nonsensical, but really no more nonsense than Unicron turning into a robot eating giant space Pac-Man.



    Thanks for clarifying those points. that's why I asked several Q's at the start.

    Because most of the TF stuff around Allspark, Primus, Unicron, Matrix etc is vast mix from different continuities that make a larger tapestry from the multiverse of fictional stories out there, many of which are officially retroactive, meaning they got invented a decade or more later, but now are officially part of certain stories/ continuities, but we are free to pick and choose, ignoring the retroactive stuff if we choose, but we can't ignore the influence it has on all modern TF fiction going forward once established.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016