Think it's still possible to include more fembots in IDW?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by kaijuguy19, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    I hope I'm not the only person in here who thinks that there should be NO difference between "male" and "female" sparks?

    I mean, there probably shouldn't be any differences between the two types at ALL, beyond purely cosmetic ones.

    zmog
     
  2. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    I am going agree with SMOG on this one guys.
     
  3. Nocturne

    Nocturne Professional Ginger

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    No, you're not the only one. I think that if you have to explain what makes a female transformer female then you open up the whole problem of explaining what makes a transformer male when, technically, we haven't had a 'true' male transformer introduced. In-universe the majority of Transformers are genderless (lol)

    I'm quite happy with the cultural evolution explanation. "Oh, we just use She because that's just how it worked out. Same with how you ended up using He, I imagine"
     
  4. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Exactly.

    Also, if you're introducing "gender" in Transformers by way of fembots, just so you can use it as a lever to emphasize the difference between the sexes, and to bluntly apply gendered stereotypes... then I don't think you're really doing it for the right reasons.

    zmog
     
  5. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    Agreed, one reason why I hope they have some established manbots identify as fembots through exposure to the Camien fembots. Illustrate it has nothing to do with sex (because bots don't have sexes) but rather a cultural construct and a matter of individual identity.
     
  6. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Exactly. I might have been imagining things, but before all this started happening, I was wondering if Roberts and Milne might have been subtly playing with the genderless aspect of TFs, and giving certain characters subtle "feminine" cues.

    I think it would be cool for some "default" TFs to go "female"... though of course, IDW would have to step lightly, since the potential for fan-rage is significant. They'd have to work with characters who don't already have really established characterizations.

    On a side note, Whirl's psycho-affective holo-avatar is female... hmmm... first candidate for a new fembot? :D 

    zmog
     
  7. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    Or Tailgate. But Whirl 'coming out' as female would be hilariously excelelnt.:) 
     
  8. agentSAP2006

    agentSAP2006 Avatar by Limewire

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    If Whirl just started running around saying "I'm a girl", I'd be completely okay with that.

    Speaking of Whirl's holo matter avatar, I saw somewhere that said Cyclonus' was suppose to be a girl. Is that true?
     
  9. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    I vaguely remember something about that, was it in the comic or did Roberts say it in an interview? God if Cyclonus became a fembot I would be so thrilled, had a crush on him since TF:the Movie.

    Edit:
     
  10. Ironhide1706

    Ironhide1706 Elessar Telcontar

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    Female Whirl would be exceptional. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we found out First Aid is, too.
     
  11. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    I don't know I seen Whirl Holo image it reminds me of the Barroness
     
  12. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Truth is, this whole "gender" thing is only unneeded complication caused by Arcee's Spotlight.

    There should be no gender at all, not like it is understood by organics.

    A female form or way of thinking should be yet another difference in design, just like it is chassis type, or alt mode type.

    Something that humans perceive like some transformers being "females", but for Cybertronians it is just another difference between robots. And then they're using "he" or "she", as it is translated to organic languages, because it's the closest thing to express this small difference.

    Imho "female" bots never needed any special explanation until Arcee's origin complicated things.

    So...
    ^Yeah, that'd be perfect.
     
  13. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Back during the Delphi arc, I was getting the sense that Milne was giving First Aid subtle female design cues, but nothing ever directly came of that. If small, passive, inoffensive bots like Tailgate and First Aid identified female, then I think Whirl would definitely have to, just to keep the stereotypes balanced. :) 

    I think more accurately, Whirl's Holo Avatar is basically Nemesis Pippy Longstocking. Which is pretty hilarious actually. :) 

    I agree with you completely... but due to elements of the fiction over the years, and expectations in the fandom, and the downright stupid fuss over pronouns (they're not even speaking english, why should pronouns be a problem for Cybertronians??), the middle ground might be to acknowledge at least an artificial assumption of gender as part of a TF's identity.

    I think this could be interesting anyway, as depending on what planet they are on, TFs might not be doing gender "right"... which could be funny. Or genders could be seen as an affectation... so you have bots that are "male", "female", and also those who just can't be bothered and think the whole thing is pointless.

    Following the current logics, a TF wouldn't just "come out" as female... he would have to come out as male as well, since their default state is inherently genderless/sexless. To identify as "male" would logically be just as much as a transgression from the ungendered norm. The error is to presume that all TFs are male to begin with.

    Except, thanks to Furman, that doesn't work since all TFs by default identify as male (with the damn pronouns again!), despite not having an indigenous opposing binary in their species.

    sigh...

    zmog
     
  14. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Well I'd have to go and change my VA's for them, which I don't want to especially since I think Brian Drummond would be a killer Whirl.

    First Aid is already a girl in my head canon.
     
  15. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Yup.
    I wonder how many people who are fiercely defending the most common excuse for Arcee's story, like "it's about forcing gender, not about forcing female", noticed how this one conversation about pronouns pretty much invalidated the whole explanation.

    What "genderless"?
    They all call themselves males, Furman explicitly admitted to it in his own comic book. :D 

    Too bad nobody had guts to invalidate this Spotlight completely by writing it off in-universe as Arcee's incoherent crazed babbling.
    The Camiens origin is more like workaround, because it leaves Arcee's origin intact.


    But bringing Strika and Slipstream as Camiens and Decepticons could be doable. Strika had clear militarist streak while Slipstream was incredibly snarky and cynical. Neither of them was likeable or altruistic.
    Maybe they did something awful on Caminus and were exiled, or had to run away? Then maybe they encountered some Decepticon warship and decided to roll with its crew? After all, many Decepticons in IDWverse are depicted not as freedom fighters, but merely as opportunist thugs.
    And supposedly there were many Decepticon warships flying around.
     
  16. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    Yeah, and if the writers really wanted TFs to be genderless they could have started to use genderless pronouns.
     
  17. Bumblebee2000

    Bumblebee2000 Well-Known Member

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    I wish the comic had taken that route to begin with.
     
  18. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    That's the problem... it was easy enough to assume that the male pronouns were being used just for facility of storytelling, or that TFs were using male pronouns when speaking English on Earth for arbitrary reasons... but once Furman addressed the pronoun question in Spotlight:Arcee in a conversation between 2 Cybertronians speaking in their own language, he kind of messed everything up.

    HOWEVER, since we are still only able to view that conversation through the lens of translation, it's quite possible that when Arcee and Magnus were using the terms "he" and "she", it could still have just represented distinctions between standard and irregular TF nomenclatures... and not really "he" and "she" in the strict Earth/English sense, with all the accompanying associations.

    Furman's big mistake was that in that moment, rather than confirming that TFs were indeed genderless (until Arcee), he instead reinforced the idea of gender as a pre-existing distinction (with all "normal" TFs being "male") through their use of language to express ideas of difference. It was self-defeating. That's one of the other reasons I dislike that Spotlight story so much... not only was it quasi-sexist, but even in terms of internal logics, it just didn't make any sense.

    I would have appreciated the sentiment, but I think it would have ultimately been very awkward and even more alienating than having an "all male" cast. I think that's because in english, attempts at genderless pronouns always come off as either clumsy or pretentious.

    Should have just gone for the GoBots approach, and arbitrarily made a large section of the cast female-identified without changing their designs at all.

    But then of course, you'd have that part of the fandom who would complain... "ZOMG!! WHY AREN'T THEY SEXY?? HOW CAN WE TELL THEY'RE GIRLS WITHOUT BOOOOOBS???" :redface2: 

    zmog
     
  19. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    Yeah I don't like that either really, it's just an option they could have done if they ever really wanted TFs to be genderless

    I actually like the idea of TFs adopting or developing genders, because it is a social construct not a biological trait you could have a really interesting story about how they developed a concept and what it means to a sexless robot species. Spotlight Arcee could even have been written as a way to explore that instead of the extremely problematic thing it ended up being. It would also be interesting to see other genders. Not every TF might think of themselves as gendered so you could have, for example, agender/genderless Optimus Prime or Bigender Blurr or Genderfluid Megatron or whatever.
     
  20. Rung

    Rung DESIGNER!!!

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    excuse them for writing in English language.