Things you HATED in 07' and Bumblebee

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by TheWarPathGuy, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. TheWarPathGuy

    TheWarPathGuy Sorry, I just look very gouda. That was cheesy.

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    Both of these are good movies, yet their still flawed someway. No movie is perfect, and I want to express what I DIDN'T like in the films.

    Transformers
    It is the best of all Bay's Transformers directed films, but it isn't the revival we all hoped for.
    • I think there should of been a scene to introduce the Decepticons as a collective group, similarly to how the introduced the Autobots. We know nothing about Brawl, Blackout, and Bonecrusher except they can't talk, and are the villians. But all of them are far more memorable than the other Decepticon in the films. But Shatter and Dropkick are still the best villians, they had a clear motive, were fun, and posed a legitimate threat.
    • The movie is too long and could've removed some scenes. Mainly the Sam scenes. They contribute not that much to the plot.
    • The jokes are corny. Michael Bay is not the funniest guy. The humor relies on sex jokes, toilet humor, and characters acting like they have no common sense. But compared to the later films, the humor here is more tolerable and not as cringe worthy.
    • There was alot of pointless bickering, by like the last statement, it's downplayed.
    • Alot of the characters were unlikable. Sam was weird, loud, and unfunny. Mikaela was ok, just over sexualized. I don't remember a scene with Leenox, and he kinda feels there. To quote Ironhide: "The parents are very irritating."
    • I feel the battle of L.A. should of mainly been between the Autobots and Decepticons. It gives the Autobots an unfair advantage, and makes the Decepticons look weak when they can be killed by a couple of explosives. This can also establish the destruction, and how ruthless their war can be. But it is still cool that the humans helped, so it doesn't make them seem like they can't help.
    • The conflict is mainly between the humans and the Transformers, and not the Autobots and Decepticons. It feels like the Decepticons joined the film last second, because that's what the series is about.
    Bumblebee
    Travis Knight saved the series, but like every movie, it's not perfect. I have more of nitpicks.
    • I feel the Cybertron scene should of been longer, or to simply include more of them. We never saw much of the planet aside from a few establishing shots.
    • I think it would of been handled better if there were scenes where the Autobots had to recuse Optimus from the Decepticons. Imagine Wheeljack, Ratchet, Brawn, staying behind to help Optimus.
    Can't think of much criticism for Bumblebee, it was basically perfect.
     
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  2. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    For bay 07 cons, I highly agree with your first complaint, they all shouldve had a warm renunion together as Megatron woke up instead of some stupid "mobilize" roll call that never truley came to fruition



    Now on to my 2 cent, I finally knoticed that Bumblebee was super underused in 07 in both camaro forms. He was only there to pose for the camera and wasn't given any luxury to have any onscreen actions like his peers. His takedown on Brawl doesn't count because mikaela helped him and Barricade was straight offscreen when they fought. This would explain why I wasn't fully on board with the 1st autobot crew; they're only known for their group shots and not really much else. Compared to AOE, they've never proven to be a badass team together.

    I think I understand why bee was being used so much in the next two sequels; Bay and paramount were trying to do him better justice.
     
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  3. ErbFan28

    ErbFan28 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t say that I hated this but anytime the 07 movie cut to the hacker characters, I was taken out of the movie.

    That’s the closest I got to feeling hatred while watching either movie.
     
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  4. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Veteran

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    The humor. And that's about it.
     
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  5. snokoan

    snokoan Well-Known Member

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    for bumblebee there nitpicks the only thing i can think of is more action
     
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  6. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee Funny Little Man

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    For the 2007 film, it could have toned down the Bay tropes, not have Sam and the camera leer at Mikaela while she's complaining that no one takes her seriously and don't see her value besides being attractive, cut a few scenes with the humans (the parents did not have to be prominent and the hacker subplot should have been cut), and spent more time with the robots (have more scenes with the Autobots as a group and add in at least one scene of the Decepticons being characters). Also, Bumblebee's fight with Barricade should have been longer and demonstrated Bee's willingness to protect Sam and Mikaela, so they have more reason to trust him.

    Bumblebee... uh... hmm. There's nothing I really dislike... I guess you could cut out the Memo character entirely, and design Blitzwing to look more like Blitzwing, but the latter is a nitpick and the former doesn't really drag down the story.
     
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  7. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

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    Bumblebee's eyes turning red in, er, Bumblebee, bothers me way more than it has any right to.
     
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  8. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Well-Known Member

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    I didn't hate anything in Bumblebee. I wasn't particularly find of the red-eye scene, but I certainly didn't hate it.

    I suppose I would say I hate the amount of dumb humor and boring human stuff in the 2007 movie. I also kind of dislike the way the Transformers are portrayed as background aliens as opposed to everyday guys who happen to be from a different planet. There are aspects of that, but I would have preferred them tone down the "awe factor", and just make them characters.
     
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  9. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Good lists so far. With Bumblebee, I wanted more action and less teen angst. They could have left out the diving history subplot.
     
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  10. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There will only be one.

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    Every 20 minutes is another action scene and the sheer clarity and technical competence is beyond prior films. I see you go everywhere on this forum saying this same thing. I think you mean that you wanted the action to be BIGGER. If being big is your only reference point for good action, then you don't know what good action is.

    Also, if a girl just moving on from losing a father is "teen angst," good luck. Just in general. Good luck with everything.
     
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  11. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    In the '07 film, I hated the awkward scene when Sam's parents get confrontational with him in the bedroom and... things... get discussed that didn't need to be in a Transformers film. I hated Bumblebee "lubricating" Simmons. And in large part I hated Simmons (and I hate saying that because I loved him in ROTF, I don't know what changed).

    Didn't hate anything in Bumblebee, that was just straight up a great movie.
     
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  12. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There will only be one.

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    I wouldn't consider going around in a circle introducing yourself with some unique accent to be good character development either, but I don't think they wanted to humanize the Decepticons in any way. Once Megatron awakened, everyone knew to resume their mission. It's a really effective way to establish Megatron as a scary and commanding presence and one of the few times I'll defend less character development. Optimus, Megatron, and maybe Bumblebee are the only clear characters in that movie, but that's fine.
     
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  13. Oktiduz

    Oktiduz Well-Known Member

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    ... the question we should be asking ourselves is why are we putting BB and TF:2007 even near each other...
     
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  14. PrimeSlave

    PrimeSlave Well-Known Member

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    There isn't really that much if anything I'd HATE in Bumblebee. It's not perfect, but it's legitimately rather good film and none of the comedy or any other elements feel completely unnecessary or make you feel like the movie considers you to be very, very simple-minded. It's not that every piece of humor in Bay's films was bad, but overall, it often felt that the comedy in those films along with often sub-par writing really underestimated it's audience.

    About the '07 film... I don't really hate that many parts in it, it's mostly that I'm not a fan of how certain things turned out. There are many shots and action scenes that don't come up nearly as impressive as they could, but a big part of the blame is that it was the first time; camera angles and overall control of the things that happen on screen seems much better in the following films - outside Bay's signature SUDDENLY CAMERA STARTS TO SPIN AROUND AND EVERYTHING BECOMES MESSY AND THERE ARE EXPLOSIONS EVERYWEHRE AND OPTIMUS GOES "AAARRHGH" AND SLICES THROUGH THIS ROBOT AND THAT ONE GUY MEDDLES SOMETHING IN THE BACKGROUND BUT YOU DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT AND IT DOESNT MATTER BECAUSE THEN THERE ARE MORE EXPLOSIONS AND A LOT OF CHAOTIC MESSING AROUND AND OPTIMUS GOES "I KILL YAAAA" moments.

    And I really mean it, Bay knows how to create some very impressive cinematography and occasionally there are very well-done scenes around. It's just that they're very random and how most of the scenes are put together to tell any kind of story is rather weak for the most part. But, to get to the point, I felt that while it was part of the magic that 07 movie made every transformation kind of a stand-out moment and transformers characters really needed to feel and seem big and impressive, some of the bigger scenes left a lot to be desired for, mainly the Mission City battle.

    I also thought, and still think, that the whole live-action launch could and arguably should have been with a different kind of mythological approach. I understand and kinda like the heart of the film, which is the story about a boy and his first car, but they didn't really bring enough intriguing TF stuff to the table; while most of the autobot characters were pretty cool and you get that little piece of background story of the war and all that, the movie doesn't really give you that much elements you'd wish to dig deeper. There aren't any threads left to pursue in the sequels nor any notable character development moments outside Sam and that's part of the problem in the sequels: all of the movies carry some elements from the previous ones, but the continuity is often incoherent and instead of creating some clear plot threads to discover and follow in the sequels they just kind of brought a lot of new, often incomplete elements to the table and left a many earlier threads and characters just hanging.

    So, I feel that 07 movie should've planted some proper seeds and story elements by little things, such as underlining the bond between our core autobot team, foreshadowing upcoming stuff a bit better and overall, been just a little bit more conscious about the fact that it's gonna make a shitload of money and there's going to be a sequel(s). All that could've been achieved without sacrificing the core of the story we got. It's easy to say this now, of course, but maybe writer's room would have been a good idea back then too? Assuming that they would have sticked to a couple of key elements and clear mythos instead of including pretty much everything regardless if it benefits the story and fits in like they did with TLK ten years later.

    Oh well. To make it short:
    - I didn't quite like the way they set up the mythos and stakes for the story behind the autobot-decepticon war and characters
    - You can tell from most of the robot scenes, when comparing to the sequels, that it's not quite as clear to them how these things really work on-screen, but it's nothing that it'd hate, just an observation; overall, I feel that even though the 07 one is the most balanced of the Bayformers, it's "WOW" factor has also faded the most. With sequels, I can often overlook all that shit since their best scenes are very compelling to watch. Yeah, you get that Arrival to Earth scene in 07 movie and some great moments, but personally I feel that good stuff and overall more interesting story in DOTM and some outstanding individual elements and moments of AoE just manage to outweight the decency of the 2007 movie. Just a personal preference, of course
    - Related to the previous point, but anyway, the Mission City battle should have been just a tad bit more transformers-centric.

    But yeah, "hate" is a bit too strong word to describe my feelings towards the 07 movie. It's somewhere between mediocre and decent when looking with fanboy's eyes. Funny enough, the fanboy's eyes are also the reason for most of the stuff I dislike in it. It's not like lack of proper mythos and Transformers' character development would otherwise disturb me that much. It's not a bad nor a good movie. It's enjoyable for what it is, but looking back to all the films now, I feel that Bumblebee did the human side of it much better and all the sequels nailed the action and sheer epicness better, so there's not that much to really dig out of it anymore. As I said, it's enjoyable and made me happy, but even back then I wasn't completely satisfied with the way some things were handled.
     
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  15. TheWarPathGuy

    TheWarPathGuy Sorry, I just look very gouda. That was cheesy.

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    They are the best films in the franchise, I will make a separate thread for the other 4 films.
     
  16. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi Well-Known Member

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    Probably just the cringy humor in the 07 films, but even compared to the sequels I still found them more tolerable to watch.

    Bumblebee was perfect in my opinion. I can see where people demanding more action are coming from, but I completely disagree. More action =/= better action. I vastly prefer the intelligent, well choreographed fight scenes of Bumblebee over the noisy, shaky, and incomprehensible robot slasher porn of the Bay films.
     
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  17. Rijie78

    Rijie78 Vinyl junkie.

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    In BB - the oh-so-hilarious stuff with Bee trashing the house, the stuff with chucking bog roll at that girls house, the really idiotic stuff with Charlie being taken back to her room while a secret government organisation politely explains things to her Mum.

    Really, all that stuff was just bad, very forced, and cheapens what was otherwise a reasonable film. I know the final film is a total mishmash of original film & reshot film which are plainly very different, and even the best editor can't fully disguise that.. but those moments were either unnecessary, or the necessary plot points they contained could surely have been handled much better. I suspect the writer was under the cosh somewhat.

    And, the lack of the Decepticons really amounting to anything. Budget, no doubt, but still. They seemed largely incidental other than their introductory scenes, and the final fight.

    The '07 film.. gah, there's things to like, but much to find irritating. Mostly the "humour", as others say. Sam generally. Bloody irritating man. The parents; the vast majority of the stuff at Sam's house; Simmons; the awful "subplot" with the Aussie girl, her usb stick and her fat hacker friend (all of which can be lost with no impact on anything); them and the President in that room "hot-wiring" computers; parts of just so many of the scenes which go on too long or have pointless "laffs" (eg Frenzy/Sam slapstick)... I mean, how long have you got, we could be here a long time ;)  You could edit a good half hour off that film and it would be non the worse for it, and largely improved.
     
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  18. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

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    I feel that Sam's personality was good as a "starting point" in the 07' film. It's like how whiny Luke Skywalker was in A New Hope...the only problem is that Luke was allowed to mature and develop, versus Bay just telling Shia that Sam never seemed to change.

    I assume the same was true of Bad Boys II, where Will Smith and Martin Lawrence were just their same [email protected]$$ selves from the first one, only more high-n-mighty.
     
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  19. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    I felt the same way about Simmons. Maybe he just seemed cool in RotF because he was next to Leo.
    The same thing happened with Wheelie. I hated him in RotF but loved him in DotM.
    How about more good action? I thought the Cybertron scenes were a tad hard to follow. The Blitzwing fight was great! And so was the scene when Charlie was running and you get to experience the TF fight from her viewpoint. I'd like to see more of that, getting a feeling of how big these robots really are next to a human, and how dangerous it can be if they're fighting.
    Great post, sums up my thoughts very well.
     
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  20. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    Oh, delightful, I get to defend ROTF again...

    See, all that stuff endeared the movie to me because it felt very much like stuff that would have happened in an '80s movie. Like the movie had been made in '87 and then promptly lost for 30 years.

    Uh-oh... I get to defend Leo too... :confused2