At the end of Age of Extinction, Optimus Prime leaves Earth to meet the Creators, whom we are shown on screen to have organic hands and to detonate Seeds on terminal Cretaceous Earth. We are shown them harvesting Transformium and shown an example of Transformium from the end of the Mesozoic that survived into the present day in Earth's sedimentary rock layers. Regardless of the Creators' identities, we know for a fact they exist and that they did those things.

However, in The Last Knight Optimus arrives on a visually damaged Cybertron and finds Quintessa, who claims to be Prime's maker and "the Prime of Life." There are no others like her that we are shown. She is not organic, but appears to be a robot or Cybertronian of sorts (more on that later though). Her motivations are never really mentioned. None of the origins of Transformers are explored in this movie other than some brief lip service, although she does control Prime and turn him into Nemesis, which does gel with Lockdown saying that he was built to do as he was told. She wants to use her Staff to drain Unicron and restore Cybertron. She can also change her appearance. She can teleport and defy her apparent destruction as seen in the end. She has an appearance suspiciously like the Dynasty of Primes in the second movie.

Furthermore, Megatron is no longer Galvatron and is shown to also have the red mark Optimus is given by Quintessa. It seems kind of odd that we go from the seemingly independent and autonomous Galvatron who serves his own interests to Megatron being loyal to a superior yet again. Again, no explicit explanation is given as to why Megatron now serves Quintessa, although he seems weary of Earth in The Last Knight and desired to see Cybertron restored in DotM, so I suspect that is what is going on. Some aspects don't make sense, unless...

The RotF thread got my thinking: what if Quintessa is not just a new character, but one we have seen before in the movies? A character who Megatron also was subservient to and who also wanted to drain a celestial body and destroy Earth: The Fallen!

Megatron is subservient to both Quintessa and the Fallen. It makes sense he would serve Quintessa IF she was the Fallen or at the very least a co-ruler with the Fallen. I don't think he would serve her if she was not the Fallen or the other half of the Fallen.

The Fallen is called, "The original Decepticon," by Jetfire. Quintessa is titled, "The Great Deceiver." I don't see much of a difference.

Both Quintessa and the Fallen can teleport in between dimensions it seems. They both have Egyptian-inspired aesthetics. Neither are shown as having alternate modes, not counting Quintessa's human disguise.

Quintessa wants to drain Unicron and destroy Earth to restore Cybertron's energy resources using a Cybertronian ship buried on Earth and a portable, seemingly magical Cybertronian artifact. The Fallen wants to drain the Sun and destroy Earth using a large Cybertronian machine buried on Earth and a seemingly magical Cybertronian artifact.

Finally, the Fallen is seen getting killed in RotF, but is he permanently dead? Quintessa is shown getting "destroyed" by Bumblebee, but she turns up alive and well in the credits scene. They are beings (or a single being) that don't function like humans or even normal Cybertronians it seems. "Death" is merely an ephemeral inconvenience. Furthermore, the Fallen says to Megatron from his throne on the Nemesis, "The Cube was merely a vessel. Its knowledge, its power, can never be destroyed. It can only transform." Likewise, perhaps the Fallen never truly died. He merely transformed.

I think Quintessa and the Fallen may be one and the same, or at the very least they are deeply connected beings to each other. They are two sides of the same coin. Regardless of the answer, I don't think these things are entirely coincidental.

Now is Quintessa, and consequently the Fallen, one of the Creators from AoE? I can't definitively answer that question, but I think there are a few possible answers. One is that she is not a Creator at all, and that she is simply deceiving Prime; she is the "Great Deceiver" after all. Another possibility is that she is a Creator, but she upgraded herself into a mechanical and seemingly magical body, maybe to become immortal or gain powers she wouldn't have otherwise. A third possibility is that the "Creators" are not a single species, but a conglomeration of beings from different worlds that once formed a civilization or council of civilizations, and together they detonated the Seeds on thousands of worlds to create the Transformers, and these Creators included both organic and mechanical beings.

Crazy? Overthinking on my part? Perhaps, but I do think it could solve some problems, and it would undoubtedly be quite an interesting twist were it to be the case.

 

They previously said The Fallen was the "Judas" of the TF now Quintessa was called "an apostle"of the TF by Lorenzo Di Bonaventura so at least you have this connection between the 2.I would love it if they were planning to co-rule because in the aligned continuity he had feelings for Solus Prime and things got complicated..and he killed her accidentally if I remember right..well now let's say he didn't kill her,she just took another name and claimed this identity of a "maker".It would be interesting if this happened before the Primes built the Harvester on Earth so that created tension between the brothers..still they forgave him but the Harvester thing was the last straw and they decided to fight against him and his followers.

 

I'm going to say no.

Not because your theory doesn't have sound reasoning, but because the producers of these movies simply have no plan. There is literally no thought process to writing these movies.

 

Don't see it.

Don't see it too.

Maybe Sentinel Prime is the Fallen too?
Seriously, this theory simplifies everything too much. First of all, if the Fallen is immortal, why the First Six died and Sam met them only in some sort of heaven? Creators being the assembly of mechanical and organic races also sound strange, because they created mechanical beings obviously to make them slaves. There shouldn't be free sentient mechanical beings living in peace with Creators and being equal to them. Because Creators are the first ones, who built this form of life. Explaining the origin of Transformers as artificially created race for exploring the space and hard labor sounds very scientific and logic. I think you were right, when said, that TFs were built non-sentient and suddenly got souls because of some accident or diversion. I also think, that likely Creators don't consider TFs as sentient race today too.

Let Aligned continuity be separate from Movieverse, please. It has so much magic, mysticism and divine creacionism, that it weakly fits Movie continuity. And a man "loving" a woman (btw, I can't understand sexuality between Transformers) and accidentally killing her sounds... mmm... uncomfortable for me as woman. How you can call it "love"?

 

Funny enough, I think TLK had the opposite problem; there were too many competing thought processes going on, but I'm glad you can see the reasoning

Isn't the problem people had with TLK that things became way too convoluted and contradicted too much stuff from its predecessors? If so, I don't see how making Quintessa the same being as the Fallen, or at the very least a being who is highly connected with the Fallen, would make things worse.

And the Primes, even though they were "dead," were still alive in the Matrix in a way. Perhaps in the same way the Fallen is alive in the form of Quintessa, or Quintessa is his other half of sorts.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but I do think it's an idea worth discussing.

 

Also, there’s Quin-Tessa and Barri-Cade, who must be the Yeagers lol   But seriously, this just reinforces how much TLK mashed a bunch of stuff together from the previous sequels, but somehow managed to be disconnected from them at the same time.

 

I mean I can't disagree, but if I were a part of the production of Transformers 6 (the main sequel) I would have to at least attempt some level of coherence and actual connection, and I think this would be a possible partial, although not total, solution, which is why I posted it.

You can see my ideas for reconciling Unicron being Earth and Lockdown's words about the universe being a big place in other threads.

I think The Last Knight wouldn't have gotten as much flak from fans if hadn't been sold as the movie that would connect the other movies together. It billed itself as too many things it wasn't, unlike the other four films.

 

Sorry, but The Fallen is not surviving his .

 

If they can make it so the Knights in the film have been secretly on a ship in the ocean since the Dark Ages despite Lockdown claiming he caught them all, and we have gotten Robot Heaven with the spirits of the Dynasty of the Primes, and the Matrix can come together after disintegrating into a pile of superficially meaningless dust, then I see no reason why a Transformer with abilities like the Fallen can't transcend death in the human sense or even in the sense of normal Transformers.

Hell, I'd like it a heck of a lot better than the fan requests wanting Shockwave/Soundwave/Starscream/Sideswipe/Dino/Ratchet/Ironhide/Nitro Zeus back. At least Quintessa being the Fallen reincarnated would retroactively make the Fallen out to be this death-cheating, dimesnion-hopping, powerful being with quite the legacy, and it would explain why Megatron is loyal to Quintessa. I don't think Megatron would suddenly serve some random sorceress unless he had a very good reason.

At the very least, there should be a strong relationship between the two.

 

I think Quintessa was supposed to be Quintus Prime from the Covenant of Primus. Just a female version of it.

This theory to me is really weird. The Fallen and Quintessa are the same? Wha?

But I still stand by the idea that the Fallen wanted to destroy Earth because it was Unicron. That makes more sense than simply hating on humanity.

 

Good theory, but I'm going to say no. My theory of Quintessa is that she's never the real "creator" (because of the organic hand you mentioned) and she's not actually a "prime of life" but "a great deceiver".

 

I like the idea they may be connected but not the same person. Maybe not as lovers, but as a ruling class type thing. If the fallen returns, i want him to still be tony todd. Then we could get quinyessa and fallen together in the same scene. I'd like to see that.

The red mark means megatron was brainwashed. That's why he was serving her.

 

Introducing the Quintessons and the First Primes in the same universe can never gel well.

 

It was just an idea..Beast Wars also had this.I'm not saying I want romantic stuff like in most movies just saying they vibed to eachother and then one day The Fallen got in an argument with..let's say Vector Prime and fired the Requim Blaster(that Solus built for him) but the Prime dodged and that's when Solus Prime got hit..she was just coming their way.The Fallen would be angry and bitter..filled with anguish so The Primes believe he learned his lesson and the death of Solus is painfull enough so they forgive him untill one day when they were building the Star Harvester on Earth..the Primes saw the humans and wanted to leave immediately but The Fallen wanted the Matrix for himself and for the survival of his race so he turned on them.

Now I can understand where you're coming from and why you don't like it..I respect that.I just thought it would kinda show The Fallen's good side just being burned away by suffering and that would have been his first step in this web of hatred and war that still goes on today with the 'Bots and 'Cons..all because an accident..that would be a twist for sure but again it's just me going way too far-fetched here.I'm sure there are other ways to it  

I don't think that's right my friend...the Quintessons can be the Creators and The First Primes can be the rulling class of Cybertron after the cybertronian rebelled against them and they left.TO me it's that simple.

 

Quintessa and The Fallen are not the same character, no connections whatsoever.

 

I don't think this idea is as silly as some of you are making it sound. It's definitely far more plausible than the idea that Ironhide should be brought back after being turned into a pile of dust. It would be more believable than Starscream's Ghost appearing in live action.

If the Allspark can shrink into a Cube small enough to be picked up by Sam and give Frenzy a whole new body, and if the spirits of the Primes other than The Fallen can talk to Sam through the Matrix of Leadership after it has disintegrated and before magically coming back together again, then I think the idea that The Fallen's lifeforce survived Revenge of the Fallen and is the same being as Quintessa is an intriguing one.

At the very least, it's possible that Quintessa and The Fallen are two halves of the same being, and it's extremely likely there's a connection between the two.

Quintessa claims to be Prime's maker, but there's no definitive evidence she actually is one of the Creators so far. She can change her appearance. Like The Fallen, she can seemingly disappear between dimensions. I don't see Megatron intentionally being a servant of many others after the previous films; The Fallen would be an exception. Megatron's service to Quintessa seems a lot more voluntary than Prime's based on how he acts. It seems like Quintessa is a being he was familiar with at the very least.

The Fallen is literally the same guy who said the Allspark's knowledge can never be destroyed; it can only transform. The other Primes never fully died; they merely transformed to be on a different plane of existence. Likewise, I find the idea that The Fallen never fully died but merely transformed mercifully appropriate. The Dynasty of Primes and Quintessa and The Fallen are all clearly not normal Cybertronians. Their bodies are merely vessels of their living existence.

 

Same being? Probably not.

My biggest guess would be that Lockdown, Sentinel Prime, and the Fallen were all puppets of Quintessa, whether they knew it or not; exploiting their desires and motivations in order to achieve her own.

The Fallen, aka Megatronus Prime, intended to harvest the energy from our sun to convert into Energon until it would eventually burn and die out. Quintessa would've benefitted from this, since it would've restored Cybertron as well as perishing Earth, and therefore Unicron in the process.

Similarly, Sentinel Prime tried to space bridge the entire remains of Cybertron to near Earth's orbit. This could've given the opportunity for Quintessa to provoke, awaken and draw out Unicron so she could drain his energy to Cybertron.

Hell, she probably even wanted the Cube as well.

But of course, all these plans failed, so she had to take matters into her own hands.

Again, this is just a theory. If there's any holes or anything you find questionable, feel free to let me know.

 

You know, this is also a fair enough assessment. Thanks for contributing positively to this thread and providing a well thought out perspective!

 

It's an interesting theory, but I don't think they're the same.

I have my own theory about Quintessa. I think she's a Quintesson (maybe the last of her species?), and that she is actually the same being that we see in AOE. Maybe her Cybertronian-looking form isn't even her true form. She takes on a human form when interacting with a human, so maybe she took a Cybertronian form to interact with Optimus. Maybe her true form is that alien we saw in AOE...