All I'm gonna say about this thread is this: did you really site the scientific accuracy of Jurassic Park? I LOVE that movie but...

I love this guy!

 

Transformers don't need gender, the trouble is they have always had it. The 'Transformers should be genderless' argument while perfectly sensible in some ways only gets brought out when fembots are introduced so it just seems like the primary reasoning behind it is to keep male as a default.

 

That's not Windblade's issue. Her problem is that she turns into a jet and she's not a voyager. I need my planes Voyager Hasbro!

 

they are none gender, their bodies takes the form and evolves... i have no issue with any of this fembot fiesta... what i'm afraid of is the "FANGIRLS" who are taking the issue way too seriously and forcing their feminism ideas on a comic that is not supposed to be about genders but about robots, complaining that there are few fembots in the comic... boohoo... this is an oppression against women. and then we have the other version of those people... god, i go to deviant art and i see horrifying things that many of these fans do, they have robots having sex with each other, kissing, being naked... and the sad part is that for some reason Hasbro is trying to have a portion of these stuff included in the franchise so that the transformers can become "FEMALE FRIENDLY". if you look at windblade... she bares examples from exactly those styles... from art style of the comic (no offense to sarah stone, she's a good artist), to the aesthetic design of the whole character and the remarks of her writer. it's these things that make me worried about my favorite franchise and the whole FEMBOT issue in transformers.

and i really hate it when a few want to debate or criticize a theme, the fans come attacking and call them pointless, hey you loved it, good for you, idw and hasbro... let us none fans debate over the topic. it's not a hateful atmosphere, it's not getting your theme canceled,it's not like we're paid by Hasbro to support everything they make here, we're fans and we all love tranformers, but we have the right to debate about the things that we don't like. it's not toxic, it's actually useful. no franchise or society can evolve without critics.

NOW... define me the function of windblade's boobs!!!

 

Prime's reaction to this thread...

 

Fixed that.

Thing is Cybertronians arn't 'Robots' they are Robotic-lifeforms or living mechanical beings.
sure they maynot follow Biological norms but still adhear to them in some respect.
as some post they do not require genders. i agree they dont but they have them from there evolutionery past. as i pointed out life is "Plastic" to its enviroment and the TFs have had a verry long time to evolve even longer than life on earth. we are not realy discussing a childs TV show hear but cutting edge Extera terestrian non biological evolution on a website about punchy robots with red cat faces on them.

 

Nah im Homo-combaticus.

 

I'm struggling to understand how on Earth efforts to make Transformers more appealing as a franchise to women can possibly be a bad thing. They are 50% of the population, in case you hadn't noticed. I'm trying to break down your post and all I can come up with is:

1. "Yeah, there aren't many female characters but women should just deal with it."
2. "Some women produce slash art/fic, which weirds me out, so all women should be kept away from Transformers."
3. "Trying to appeal to women is a bad thing."
4. "The art in Windblade is girly and I don't like it."

What exactly are these scary "feminism ideas" you talk about? Putting more female characters in stuff? Is that so bad?

I'm perfectly open to discussion and debate about the franchise we're all fans of, but I've yet to see an argument against the inclusion of more female characters that doesn't boil down to a pre-teen "eewww no girls allowed" mentality.

NOW ... define for me the function of Alpha Trion's beard!

 

Tis a fantastically masculine fashion statement.

Honestly i never understood the "Ewe Girls " mentality what is wrong with Femmes other than the No guuuuurls?
personally i cant wait for decent toys.

 

I've taken a more nuanced position with this since previous threads on the matter. I don't object to fembots in the fiction... Just to hand-wavy explanations and the "Because f*ck you, that's why!" school of thought.

I feel like an examination of a polymorphous robotic gender could be very interesting. And it doesn't have to result in some offensive hullabaloo like Spotlight Arcee did. Furman was dealing with conceptually rich ideas, he just totally fumbled the execution.

Also, there's nothing inherently "masculine" about the other Transformers. They're humanoid robots, no more gendered than a stick figure. Yes, we have Prime's gloriously sculpted grill abs and window pecs, a few beards here and there, and Ironhide is sometimes drawn with a lantern jaw. But these are the exceptions; not the rule. Most Transformers are perfectly androgynous.

But fembots... They look like they're from a different toyline! All of a sudden we've got these hyper-sexualized semi-organic looking forms, and the "males" of the species are nothing like that. I think this is way more damaging than a simple lack of representation, because it makes "male" the default. It's a total double standard.

Why can't Bumblebee be a fembot? Or Jazz? Or Prowl? Alright, maybe not Prowl, start calling the sly, manipulative Autobot Cheney "she" and we'll be having a whole other discussion about gender polotics and archetypes. But you get my point.

And don't write them differently either! Flip a coin to decide pronouns! Force us, as an audience, to re-examine our notions of gender. And if it does that, if it makes us think, I think that's better than saying "They're there because!" or "They evolved that way!"

 

Agreed i mysrlf have gon on fecorf saying my favourate femme is Small foot from Go-bots. and recently Shatered Glass Elita 1 neither of whom fallow standard Femme formats.
i have theorised that the 'sleakness.' of the g1 femmes was a Costeffect aspect curves and "Roboboobies" were to cut on wind resistance smaller fraim and size were for Energeon efficiancy and material cost ect.

Apparently when they were writing the show and creating the characters the subject of Femmes was raised.
"Are any of these girls?"
"Nah we want boys not girls" or words to that effect.
Just emagin Starscream could have been a chick.

 

as to the second paragraph, it's sad that you don't realize how toxic, hateful, and demeaning it is to make BOOHOO FANGIRLS the crux of your argument in the first paragraph.

as to the first paragraph itself - why is it OK for transformers as a franchise to discuss themes of war, morality, MORTality, classism, environmental degradation, natural resources, good versus evil, aliens and xenophobia, friendship. BUT gender equality and gay robots is just going to damn far.. keep those commie feminists away from my clearly straight heterosexual robots shooting each other with lasers.


like really?

 

Oh look. This topic again.

There is literally nothing that can be discussed here that hasn't been beaten to death and beyond by both the absolute dumbest and most misogynist members of this board AND the smartest, most enlightened and progressive members.

You, every person reading this, are simply not going to bring anything new to the table.

Let's discuss Rumble/Frenzy and the identity of Cyclonus next.

 

I like transformers, watch the shows, buy the toys, read the comic books, ect. But this is bye far the nerdiest, non-worrisome, who cares topic I've ever seen here. Just enjoy the science fiction kids.

But, everybody loves a debate and this is the soup de'jour....carry on citizens.

 

Wackity schmackity doooo!

 

 

I love Windblade but this sums up people's opinions perfectly.

 

this ^ thank you.

 

i never said it's bad to bring female audience in, i'm totally into it, hell i made my girlfriend a fan of the franchise, what i'm against is the forcing a gender on a franchise just "because". i stated my disgust with the 2 groups, not the whole female fandom, there are many female fans who do not belong to these groups and we're getting along very well with each other. i'm saying hasbro is taking note from the wrong groups to draw in female characters, (i'm not a it's all about robots fighting kinda guy. btw). i did not complain about the art in windblade, i will do my critics when the time comes, but i guess there are many other artists out there who do better a better job on transformers, but maybe they are more close to other artists, but stone's art is chosen not because it looks great, but for more reasons that may also appeal to a certain group of fans.

is putting more female characters in transformers so bad? as much as i'm uncomfortable with it, i'd have to say no, it's not bad at all, as long as they give us a proper reason and make them actually likable not for getting fans into the franchise. the story and the characterization should draw a fan into a franchise not only the look and aesthetics, or maybe i'm thinking too classic.

should women just deal with the few fembots? idk! why do we need them in the first place? why should there be more or less? they have to give the fans a good reason why they should exist... as a friend here mentioned, they are portrayed as over the top organic sexualized robots... why can't optimus be a fembot? since when did transformers become male dominated masculine aliens? they always looked like that? these are not excuses to bring the gender issue forward. there has to be solid reason behind it. and not just they are here because fuck you, or hey we evolved in this shape! why? what was the condition that they evolved into fembots?