Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Super_Megatron, Jan 18, 2019.
Huh, that's pretty interesting stuff. It's hard to tell if that movie would have been better or worse. On one hand it all sounds pretty cool, but on the other hand the current version of AOE is one of my more enjoyed in the series. I do wish they kept the idea of a proper Decepticon team instead of the KSI drones (the idea of them having the Twin's heads is awesome!). I also like that the early version had an origin for the Dinobots. I can only hope we see that concept art at some point.
No disrespect for Bay, but I kind of wish they had gotten a different director for AOE onward. The early versions of AOE and TLK sound more coherent than the final movies.
I was told back in 2013 that bay wanted to make "pain and gain" happen but paramount wouldn't let him unless he came back for TF4, all the more reason why I hate them so much.
I mean it has some interesting ideas, but I think the finished 4th movie we got was much, much better than this imaginary 4th film that never came to be that is described in the video. It's not even close.
I like Lockdown much better as a neutral bounty hunter than as a leader of a new Decepticon group called the "Lords of Deception," and I like Galvatron much better as the KSI prototype feigning being a mindless drone than the Galvatron described here. Not to mention both in the finished Transformers 4 are closer to their namesakes than in this imaginary 4th movie that never came to be.
And Dinobots being on Earth all of this time as "Gauardians of the Allspark?" One reason I like the ancient flashback stuff and backstory in AoE is because 1) they weren't Transformers, but the alien race that created the Transformers, 2) fictional dinosaur extinction theories are fun, and 3) Earth was merely one of thousands of planets cyberformed with Seeds rather than the only one.
I do like his sense of humor about the names of Transformers.
Some of the ideas are okay, but the rest is very questionable. The title Lords of Deception? That's worse than Transformium. Or how a human base would turn into a giant robot to kill all Transformers. No one wants to see the humans at the center of attention. I don't understand how the title Galvatron is relevant either.
The biggest thing I take away from this and the 10+ years of movies I've experienced is that Hasbro always needed far more control over what Paramount did with their characters and stories. I hope Hasbro has more creative control nowadays, because if their track record is anything, they tell far better stories with their cartoons, comics, and games than they do with their big budget Hollywood blockbusters when Hollywood execs are at the wheel.
The problem with that 4th movie idea is, unless it was going to visit a city or town for moments of destruction, it seemed to lack a sense of grandiosity that critics and audiences might expect since that was the track record with the previous 3 films. If the majority of it took place in a desert, then there's not much you can do or destroy. We only have a small group of vehicles fighting each other, not a Mad Max level of car-mies clashing over precious resources. BumbleBee showed us that even in a smaller setting, robots need stuff to wreck. Nobody's going to go "ooh!" and "Ahh!" at a crumbling pile of rock formations.
As for a MASK movie, that may be a hard sell, especially nowadays when moviegoers could easily call it a Transformers rip-off. We saw how confused and negative folks could get towards BumbleBee because they assumed it was another Michael Baysplosion disasterpiece. We need to escape these preconceptions and show audiences that Transformers can change for the better. I felt BumbleBee accomplished that goal and folks who doubted it and haven't watched it yet should really give it a chance.
-I like the idea of a gang of Decepticons in the desert Mad Max style.
-I like that they wanted all 5 dinobots to be present.
-I like the idea of the dinobots being
guardians of the Allspark and Optimus reviving them.
-I like grimlock talking.
-I like Lockdown taking dead robots weapons and utilizing them.
-I like the idea of each dinobot having a unique attack/ability.
-I like the Decepticons (lockdown, oilslick) they were planning to include. (except for Galvatron)
-I like the idea of introducing Spike and Sparkplug.
-I like the idea of a big evil baseformer because if it was gonna move faster and fight harder than Devastator then that alone is an improvement.
-It would've been much appreciated to have Lance Henrickson reprise his role as Lockdown. At least the guys at Hasbro had the right idea.
-I like the idea of Spike's custom motorcycle becoming a squeaks type character is fine. We need more movie minibots anyway.
-TF: Prime Makeshift being the Chameleon/Mysterio in a future film, going around as Nemesis Prime, making Optimus look bad. That's a great idea. Shame it didn't go that way.
-I'm 50/50 on a dinobot combiner.
-I'm 50/50 on ratchet dying. People were getting tired of these films being the "optimus and bumblebee show" by film 3. We need to show folks we have more Autobots than just those two. If Marvel can make their D list characters into beloved household names then so should we.
Don't Like at all:
-Epps become G.I.Joe's Roadblock just seems like a bad forced fit. Roadblock, hence his name, is meant to be a massive dude.
-I don't like the idea of Epps dying (The black guy always dies trope. Really Hollywood? Really?). Him, Lennox, and Simmons are the best Bay-film humans IMO. Don't throw away your best guys so recklessly. We like to see these characters return because we enjoy them.
-I don't like the idea of Galvatron being a base-former. Name him something else. Overlord? What about Trypticon? Then you can have the Dinobots vs Trypticon!
Their initial names for things were downright corny:
-"Lords of Deception" is too on the nose. They live in a desert. I assume somewhere in America. Give them something the locals would like "los demonios metalicos" aka "the metallic demons."
-"Dino-Might" combiner. What're you, five? Just no, no.
As for the overall idea, it's not bad. It definitely seems like it would work better as a smaller-scale film, like how BumbleBee is. This didn't need to be a globe-hopping wonderfest filled with worldwide destruction, no. This idea would've been perfectly fine taking place in the desert, maybe venture to a small town or nearby city for areas to have the robots fight/play in. It could even just star Optimus and the 5 dinobots vs the Decepticon gang. Have prime be cut-off from his fellow autoboots and have to fend for himself until he finds his new dinosaur buddies. That would've worked well.
Well, what can ya do? Hmm? Hope the best I guess and hope Hasbro has more control over what happens next, because it's obvious they aren't creatively bankrupt, just creatively restricted.
There's some cool ideas here that are better than what was in the final film, definitely. Some stuff I'm not too big on as well, but this is still pretty cool to be able to hear.
They suggested Lance Henriksen reprise his role as Lockdown? Hot damn. I ended up loving Mark Ryan’s own take on the (different but still the same) characters but I would’ve been happy as a clam if they did get Lance back.
A lot of cool ideas in this video. I liked that Dinobots were the guardians of the Cube. Grimlock speaking was something I wanted.
Not too keen on DinoMite.
Would love to see that artwork some day.
I'm glad someone asked about his views on KSI drones.
I too agree they should have transformed.
I was hoping someone asked what went wrong with TLK.
A lot of my ideas there..I'm shocked lol like Optimus being more of a samurai..I would have liked that..the Decepticons being disbanded and Oil Slick..Epps of course except his death.Also I thought about a Dinobot combiner so what if we got DinoMite VS a human made Trypticon?Hmmm...I also like the twin's heads stuff and Lockdown being a Mad Max style but I like him as a bounty hunter more..nonetheless I like all these ideas..the Guardians Of The Allspark and Optimus with the Matrix..oh man..
Great video! It finally explains the concept arts and why the hell the artists went with this and that like Ratchet’s death in the desert here:
I love the Lockdown we got, but this one looks even more fucking awesome period.
I like the ideas they had. AOE is the Bay film I like the most with that being said I feel it is not perfect and somethings could be changed but that can be said for movies in general.
Also, I guess Lockdown is just made to be cool since the version we got is awesome and this version also sounds great
A lot of those seem suspiciously similar to things I've said in the past about why AoE as we got it is such a piece of shit for not continuing on the vague ideas left in DOTM's wake. Disbanded Decepticons? At least then we would have had Decepticons instead of shitty knockoffs that wouldn't be able to be made into toys (let alone accurate ones if Galva "Literally the entire alt mode on his back because what's kibble?"tron was any proof of that).
And Dinobots as the guardians of the AllSpark and having originated on Earth? It's almost like there was an actual fucking point to the Dinobots being, well, dinosaurs of some kind instead of random nobodies artificially given importance through exposition and never fucking actually explained beyond knight bullshit...which also was never really explained.
Plus, Lockdown would have been absolutely great as a leader of Mad Max style Decepticon refugees. THAT is closer to his true characterization as somebody who pretty much is a frankenstien of parts from different sources, as opposed to literally "the mouthpiece for a supposedly far more important group of badguys that never actually got developed past the fucking generic name for them" which somehow gets praised these days as good character writing.
For that, I blame Goldner because since day one, he's been 100% only about the films and the rest of the non-movie stuff like Animated, Prime, and Generations happened just to keep momentum going between films as far as he was concerned.
Now there I disagree, if only because Fast and Furious more or less has become what MASK ideally should be. Heck, in the sixth film, you absolutely have a classic MASK moment where the convoy explodes and a tank pops out, and the seventh film basically was a psuedo-MASK film considering the absurdity of the mountain pass ambush sequence (skydiving street racing cars to rescue a hacker from terrorists who are on board a modified tourist bus that has concealed machine guns in it) and the 'final battle' where the terrorist helicopter poops out the predator UAV while in the air to go missile spam the good guys before they can shut down Skynet Big Brother God's Eye.
And IIRC, they actually have the director of the Fast and Furious films on board for MASK's film adaptation so that's a step in the right direction. I personally would be happy just getting something like Fast 7 again for that, because it was such a gloriously cheesy action film that made Rule of Cool work.
Interesting piece, thanks for sharing!
That also explains some origins of the 4+decepticon symbol logo on a desert background that was used in marketing and toys.
You know, I've never really thought about that before. The teaser image was a Decepticon logo, but the movie didn't really feature proper Decepticons. I guess Galvatron was a Decepticon, and the KSI drones technically became Decepticons when he took control of them, but they were still just drones. The main threat certainly wasn't a Decepticon.
Can someone bullet point it all for those of us not wanting to hear Rik's voice?
Actually, I think that Galvatron is absolutely a proper Decepticon, and the Decepticon Transformers 4 logo is perfectly appropriate.
In Age of Extinction, Megatron secretly survives as an immobile decapitated head. It is Megatron who feeds the humans the knowledge on how to build their own Transformers. It is Megatron who manipulates the appearance of the Galvatron prototypes to resemble his own visage instead of Optimus Prime's and who manipulates the humans into pursuing a deal with the Seed, so they can make their own Transformium, and Galvatron can gain a new army. And he plays a major role in the plot, more than in any of the other movies.
Not to mention Galvatron merely feigns being a lifeless drone in his fight against Optimus, which allows Lockdown to capture Prime and give humans the Seed...which is what Galvatron wanted to begin with. AoE Megatron/Galvatron is the very definition of a Decepticon, because we have the leader of the Decepticons himself, MEGATRON, surviving, deceiving, and manipulating to get what he wants.
Not to mention Galvatron in AoE is the only time in the films where we get a Megatron with ALL of the following traits:
Voiced by Welker? Check.
Does not die? Check.
Is able to go toe-to-toe with Prime? Check. Their fight is VERY even, as a fight between Megatron and Prime should be.
Last but not least, is not subservient to anyone? Check. First Trilogy Megatron is a victim of fate, but in AoE he comes from a place of weakness and uses deception to become a master of his own destiny.
Sounds like we got a proper Decepticon to me. Not to mention nothing about this hypothetical Transformers 4 would have made it a better movie. Nor have I ever seen a fan idea that was better or as good for a fourth movie as the one we got.
The more I think about this, the more I really wish some of these aspects were included in the final movie. Specifically the Dinobot origin and the "Lords of Deception". I actually like the idea of the Decepticons evolving (or maybe devolving) into something different in Megatron's absence. The movieverse Decepticons never seemed overly organized or professional anyway (they always seemed a bit primitive), so it kind of makes sense that they'd drift away from their original purpose without a leader. I'd argue the name "Lords of Deception" isn't any cornier than 'Decepticon' (or even 'Autobot'). We're used to hearing those terms, but they do sound kind of corny if you stop to think about them. 'Decepticon' is literally 'deception' and 'con' (as in 'con-man') rolled into one. Even the Bumblebee movie poked fun at it.
I like the idea of Lockdown as a Mad-Max car way more than the Lambo, but I actually prefer the overall interpretation we got over the early version. I think he works better as an intergalactic bounty hunter, not leading a ragtag team of Decepticons. I think someone else would have been better in that role. I also think the 'Dino-might' combiner is a bit silly. The Dinobots are cool enough without a combined form, and it sounds silly. I could take or leave Galvatron as a base. I don't particularly care for either version, but then again I never really cared for G1 Galvatron.
I agree. If fits the character much better.
I think someone like Ratbat, Bludgeon, or one of the Decepticon Headmasters would have been better in the role if they went this route.
-The Dinobots all had special powers. For example, Snarl would appear transform into a wheel of sorts.
-A few years after DotM, few Decepticons were alive on Earth. Lockdown led the remnant Decepticons as a part of "The Lords of Deception." They lived in a cavern in the middle of a desert, where they kept the Twins' heads in their lair.
-Epps and Ratchet ambushed by Lords of Deception and both killed.
-Epps would be hinted to be Roadblock from G.I. Joe.
-Optimus would find Dinobots as the underground"Guardians of Allspark" and neither Autobots nor Decepticons. Dinobots scanned dinosaur remains. Optimus would have revived them. He then would have busted out of ground riding Grimlock.
-Grimlock talked. Dinobots first appear in middle of movie (Technically, this is also the case in the finished film, with Prime noticing Grimlock in the Knights' Temenos, and Grimlock checking out Prime.
-Transforming motorcycle built by human, given life by Allspark's power at end of film by Prime, and made into an Autobot. This may have been where the idea of TLK Sqweeks came from.
-Dinobot combiner named "Dino-Mite."
-"Galvatron" was a human-made, transforming base built to defeat any Transformer.
-Optimus Prime killing Decepticons with a "lighting sword." Would have had a more samurai-like design, at least later in the film.
-Lance Henriksen was wanted for voicing Lockdown.
-Concept art of Grimlock riding Optimus convinced Bay to direct the film.
A MadMax Lockdown killing Ratchet and taking his saw sounds awesome
Separate names with a comma.