Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Verno, May 5, 2020.
To put it lightly-
Is there enough material to make a whole Beast Wars episode? Even with Beast Machines included?
I mean... that'd have to end up being pretty boring. 40 minutes of the singular topic of Beast Wars with nothing else. I have no doubt that they'd run out of things to show.
To put it heavily, a 40-minute focus on Beast Wars might be boring to you, but not to others.
They could cover the state of the Transformers brand in 1994-95 which prompted the change. They could cover Transformers being handed over to Kenner (which Hasbro had recently bought) to reinvent. They could talk to TT on how it opened new avenues for them with BWN and BWII. Talk to animators on how they interpreted the initial toys. Talk to the designers on what prompted the more robotic-nature of the Transmetals line after the organic beasts proved so popular.
Plenty of ammunition for more than 40-minutes, and all of it very interesting.
That... doesn’t sound like 40 minutes of material.
That... is just some example topics off the top of my head.
Forget that, why not delve into other aspects of the Transformers franchise like say... Animated?
Because Animated didn't save the Transformers brand from oblivion.
It saved us from total Bayhem...
Also, don't discredit the rest of the fandom.
And something I've wanted to point out, @Verno. If the total runtime was going to be 90-100 minutes long, and the episode was 46 in the final cut, why call this whole thing "The Beast Wars Cut"? There's roughly 49 minutes of non- Beast Wars material in that case.
That means that in the original cut, there was enough runtime to give every year of the brand three minutes.
To consider Beast Wars/Machines ran from '96 to '99- that means that there would have been just as much BW material as there was anything else. It's almost a bit selfish to call it "The Beast Wars Cut," because there's a whole 33 other years of fandom to be covered. Maybe call it "The Full Cut", or something else.
However, the impact and lasting legacy Beast Wars had on the Transformers brand is far greater than that of Animated. That's not a point of debate. That's a fact.
If you'd bothered to even listen to the interview, you'd know that at the 19:45 mark, when asked what was cut from the episode, Brian Volk-Weiss specifically mentions having to cut 8-9 minutes of Beast Wars content.
My post, and indeed this entire thread, is not about releasing the 90-100 minute version of the entire episode. It's about releasing these 8-9 minutes of cut material relating to Beast Wars because it's the 25th Anniversary of Beast Wars next year.
That's how many of them feel and sometimes it results in some over-generalizations or gloss-overs that are not quite factual...like they did a ton of research here but not enough there because they were planning to cut it down anyway. There were one or two knee-jerk moments for me while watching both the Transformers and Power Rangers episodes.
That's not quite the same as literally giving the brand a future it otherwise wouldn't have had.
Transformers was about to go the way of other 80's icon cartoons like He-man and Voltron had prior, doomed to obscurity with short-lived, unsuccessful reboots every few years. Beast Wars ensured Transformers would never leave prominence again.
I love Animated to death, but it's not as momentous to Transformers' history. Plus as Verno has stated numerous times, the Beast Wars segment already exists, it was just cut. They didn't do a nine minute segment for Animated, so there's no point in campaigning for that. They can't release what doesn't exist.
I think there's a grain of hyperbole in saying Beast Wars enshrined Transformers in prominence. Yes, Beast Wars saved the franchise from Hasbro letting Transformers drown in a G2 mire - there's no denying that. But to say Transformers was never going to go away again kind of glosses over the fact that Beast Machines nearly killed the franchise all over again...resulting in Hasbro axing Transtech (the next step in the Beast Wars saga) and going to Takara for marketing help. There's a lot more to it, of course...but that's the basic gist of it.
In short, the Beast Wars saga was both the savior and the grim reaper for the franchise. Hasbro thankfully did some quick thinking to save the franchise, resulting in Armada (which sold more product than any Transformers series prior to it).
You're only looking at one side of the equation. The other side is TakaraTomy, who were reinvigorated by Beast Wars as well.
So enamored with the potential for Beast Wars, they created Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo. After 4-5 years of that (plus after one look at Beast Machines), they knew a return to vehicles would be a good idea, so they created Car Robots (RID). Even with Hasbro's misstep of Beast Machines, the momentum that Beast Wars had given TT carried on. They then channeled this momentum into their collaboration with Hasbro on Armada.
Beast Wars is what kicked things back into gear, created momentum, and thus, as Split Lip said, ensured Transformers' prominence.
Beast Machines didn't "nearly kill" the franchise at all. It simply wasn't successful enough to keep Beasts around, so they canned Transtech and brought over Car Robots which served more or less the same purpose (reintroducing vehicles as a standard) but required less effort. Beasts were already in their sixth year, and keeping the same old thing going for too long was what had landed Hasbro in the situation to begin with. Beast wars wasn't just a saving grace for Hasbro, they learned from it. Same thing would happen again with the introduction of the TF movies as the next "new thing" following the UT, Beast Wars established the cycle which, until recently, kept Transformers fresh.
Also I find it disingenuous to lump Beast Machines and Beast Wars together when talking about brand identity and sales. You say "the Beast Wars saga" as if Beast Machines wasn't itself a radical departure from Beast Wars. If anything the lingering ties to and momentum from Beast Wars was what kept Machines from being a total failure financially. They may have been connected via continuity, but not in style, themes, or product. To say Beast Wars was the "grim reaper" because it's radically revamped sequel series that almost completely deviated from it failed is a massive obscuring of the chronology and logistics of the time. Beast wars itself was so successful they had to pad the line's tail end with redecoes and cancelled Animorphs retools.
As for its importance in keeping Transformers alive, Beast Wars didn't "enshrine" Transformers in prominence, and I never said it did. What it did do was keep the brand alive long enough to stay prominent, rather than fade into near-obscurity like every other 80's brand did in the 90's, and reinvigorate it with news fans and recapture interest in older ones. It was a smart and successful move, giving the brand a fresh identity and showed that Transformers wasn't the one-trick pony the constantly under-performing line-wide gimmicks were making people think it was.
No, they needed filler episodes because 24 is only half a season in Japan.
Again, they needed filler episodes.
That was Hasbro's idea, not Takara's. But Hasbro wanted marketing synergy between Japan and America - and anime was getting big - so they chose to let Takara take the lead with Armada/Energon/Cybertron. Which fell apart midway through anyway.
That's a rose-colored glasses version of it. Like I said, Beast Machines was a near death-knell. The franchise had to reinvent itself to survive. If you want to point to an era that enshrined Transformers, I'd say that started in 2007 with the Michael Bay movies.
You just contradicted yourself in one statement.
No. It was a filler series while Hasbro scrambled to keep a dying franchise alive after Beast machines sales nosedived- which resulted in Armada.
It was actually the abrupt hard left to Beast Machines and Hasbro taking a more 'hands on" approach with the franchise that caused it to falter. Toys were designed but Mainframe didn't adhere, resulting in strange looking toys versus their animation models. And Bob Forward was brought on who had no clue about Transformers...so we were back to square one in writing like when we had Bob Skir and Co. on Beast Wars Season 1. The Beast Machines was simply mishandled and brought the franchise crashing down around it. RiD was the post-scramble to have "something" out there and give Hasbro time to create Armada.
They seemed to learn the series does best when they give it to someone else...either Takara or Paramount. But it's a continuing lesson.
I'm not saying that Beast Wars wasn't a bright spot. But Hasbro taking the hard left turn with Beast Machines - which is part of Beast Wars, like it or not - practically killed the franchise. RiD/Car Robots in America was Hasbro putting the franchise on life support.
Yeah, you pretty much did:
...I can roll with that. It made Hasbro want to take another vested interest in the property and, when it did falter, caused them to WANT to put it on life-support and reintroduce the line for the 2000's. But we can also say that, had Armada crashed and burned, the tail end of the Beast Wars toyline (Fuzors and TM2) was the beginning of the end, followed by the Beast Machines nosedive - and followed by us probably not talking about Siege and Earthrise today.
And even then, like I said - it's the Bay movies we can thank most of all. I think a baby Rodimus explodes every time I type that...
The series's original incarnation, Car Robots, was created in response to the continually-declining sales of Takara's Beast Wars-based toylines. As Hasbro moved into Beast Machines, Takara opted instead to start anew -and tap into nostalgia as well- by bringing back the traditional modern Earth vehicle heroes with the classic Autobot big red face faction symbol.
Perhaps have a read of the entire History section on the Car Robots page.
RID was fairly successful in 01 even with the airing trouble. More than they even expected, really. And it's not like RID ended beasts, it had beasts too! Autobots vs PREDACONS.
I watched it as a wee 3 YO and owned a few toys and was primed for Armada in 2002. I may have moved on except in 2007 that damn movie came along...
That's exactly what I was saying. Beast Wars was tanking, both here and abroad. Not sure what you're debating me on.
Beast Wars reinvigorated Transformers and reinvigorated TT. TT wanted to carry that momentum on, so they they created Car Robots and haven't stopped since.
Beast Wars is what kicked things back into gear.
Separate names with a comma.