The The Fallen, A Hero, Optimus Prime, an Idiot?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by FirestormBlizzard, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. FirestormBlizzard

    FirestormBlizzard No. 1 Jazz Fan

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    Ok, so I've mentioned this in a couple of threads. The Fallen wanted to use the Sun Harvester to destroy Earth, did he not? He hated the humans, and hated our planet. It makes sense now though. He was a Prime, the Primes were created to help fight against Unicron. What if the Fallen Knew more than what we think, and in fact, was a hero??? Yes, he may have destroyed Earth, but for a greater reason than just hate of Humans.

    Do you think that Bay and Co could actually go with this? Or is it too unexpected and smart for them??? I mean, that would be a pretty cool twist in my opinion.
     
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  2. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    Genocidal maniacs are not heroes in my book.
    The fallen went against the primes who cared about preserving life rather than destroying it.
    Last knight movie pretty much sums everything up.
    If the fallen had succeeded, he would not have stopped killing even after wiping out earth, or ruling over others like any other of histories greatest megalomaniacal monsters that come to mind.

    In his defense, the fallen probably though he was doing the right thing for the Cybertronian race, but he would benefit the receptions, he's still an evil space Hitler.
     
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  3. transf0

    transf0 “Well Connected” The GOAT

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    Never thought I'd see those words strung together that way...
     
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  4. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    I've heard space Hitler more than a few times, though putting evil as a qualifier for anything that ends in 'Hitler' strikes me as deeply redundant.
     
  5. Nemesis Scar

    Nemesis Scar Avatar by @Shadefish1

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    How could have he possibly known, for one thing?
     
  6. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    we are insects compared to them..i always felt like prime was a little too unrealistically altruistic..i mean, wouldn't you eradicate a planet full of insects to save your own world? no matter how much you may have felt dismayed, in the end, you'd come to your senses & realize, hey, they're just bugs...let's do this..but prime is a bloody fool..id totally side with the decepticons, sorry.

    do we really believe for a second humans wouldn't lay waste to an alien planet if the life forms were proven to be far more primitive than themselves?
     
  7. APB

    APB Well-Known Member

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    Except he wouldn't have destroyed the Earth as in total destruction, he would only leave it sunless. He was after the sun, not Earth. By destroying the sun he would have in return also destroyed the human race.
     
  8. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    Some would want to. Some would not want to.
     
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  9. Scorpio

    Scorpio Well-Known Member

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    In essence...

    Decepticons, Quintessa, The Fallen, etc... (Bad Guys) wanted to kill Unicron (The Devil)

    Autobots, Other Primes, Humans (Good Guys) want to let Unicron (The Devil) live just so they can avoid killing a primitive and violent species that threatens to destroy everything around them (Humans)

    So yeah, the 'Good Guys' are actually evil. Whether intentional or not we should be rooting for the Decepticons otherwise the entire Universe is being sacrificed for the sake of Humans.

    History has shown that advanced civilisations have always done this; Slavery, Pilaging, Mass genocides, etc...

    Humans are not a species that should ever be allowed to interact with alien life - as we'd either manipulate it or destroy it.
     
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  10. tonyformer

    tonyformer Well-Known Member

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    And all they had to do in TLK was have Quintessa mention to OP that The Fallen was so close to killing Unicron but you let these Humans Influence you. We all could have been free of Unicron. Or something along those lines. And it would have tied ROTF in.
     
  11. tonyformer

    tonyformer Well-Known Member

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    BROVO!!!
     
  12. Omega Charge

    Omega Charge CHARGE ON

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    This. The Fallen was after energon. His plan definitely would have left Earth lifeless, and unless the Harvester caused some kind of enormous supernova it would probably go floating off into space as a rogue dead piece of rock and robot.

    Re: Prime's altruism... it all stems from Prime's assertion that as persons, Cybertronians and humans are equal because of a shared sentience. Yes Transformers pack that sentience into a body that is 20 times bigger, but as far as Optimus is concerned you could transplant a human mind into a Transformer and there would be no difference. They all share personhood.

    A lot of the Transformers disagree with him, even his own Autobots throughout the movies. So it's definitely a topic for debate even within the cast, and I love that the writers thus far have left that moral issue as a debate, and not just left it as unquestionable that anything trying to scratcha human is "bad". And despite all Optimus' face-rending violence, his position still makes him stand out as a morally unique individual, which he always should be.
     
  13. FoolishDoomedCreature

    FoolishDoomedCreature gottagofast

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    1- We all know the chances of this getting adressed are tremendly low.
    2- It's "The Fallen", not "The The Fallen".
    3- He would've just left Unicron sunless, not destroyed.
    4- If he just wanted to kill Unicron, why didn't he evacuate the humans before activating the Harvester?
     
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