The Rise and Fall of the Deluxe

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by ar78, Aug 27, 2015.

  1. SureShotSniper

    SureShotSniper What?!

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    I hold all Deluxe standards to classics Jazz. Perfect height, transformation, looks, quality etc. the WFC were neat, but WAY too small IMO.

    CW are just fine for what they are. I would prefer no hollow areas, but it is what it is...
     
  2. Snake_eyes1975

    Snake_eyes1975 Well-Known Member

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    WFC and FOC are two totally different animals.

    WFC was Prime is one of, if not THE most impressive prime deluxes, and one of the top 5 best deluxes of all time.

    Everything from FOC was a cheap garbage toy that represents the lowest point of modern TF toys
     
  3. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    As a counter-point, I feel WFC Optimus is horribly over-complicated to the point that bits generally fly off while I'm trying to transform it. And that's not fun. So, for me, he's a shelf statue. Now, the FoC Optimus has just the right level of transformation for me...not overtly complex but enough to make him interesting. If he was a touch larger, he'd be perfect in my opinion.
     
  4. RustyBarnacles

    RustyBarnacles Well-Known Member

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    You really nailed it.

    Yes inflation has something to do with it, but it is largely because Hasbro is a publicly traded company and needs to show profit and growth every year to keep the stockholders happy.

    There comes a point though when these companies can't grow anymore. But again, they have to, so they take measures to force growth.

    If Hasbro were not a publicly traded, and could simply maintain that sweet spot of paying everyone's salaries, I think we would have much better products from them.
     
  5. Snake_eyes1975

    Snake_eyes1975 Well-Known Member

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    huh...ive never had any parts fall off mine. I agree..it IS very complicated..but that thing looks exactly like he does in the game in both modes..its truly a marvel of toy engineering.

    I would agree..the FOC may be a better toy, per say. my son loves the FOC one. he wants to play with the WFC one, but when I showed him how it TF'd, he said nevermind.

    But for me..WFC prime is probably the single most impressive $10 deluxe I have ever bought. It is more of a collector toy..your right.
     
  6. Bainreese

    Bainreese Well-Known Member

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    Err....2007 was the beginning of the modern era of toys? News to me. You paid $9.99? News to me as well. They were $12 where I lived...and they weren't there for long. Prime figures were also $15 where I lived, not $12. You praise Prime for having waist, ankle, and wrist swivel and then you use a figure that only has 1 of those three.

    All this just says to me that this whole 'Wha...my toys aren't as good a quality" is a mixed back of subjectivity.
     
  7. Snake_eyes1975

    Snake_eyes1975 Well-Known Member

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    WORD..just read that post too..but no matter how much I agree and try to express it in a way where I dont sound too douchy or cerebral here on these boards, the message is lost.
     
  8. thenatureboywoo

    thenatureboywoo Veteran

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    Personally I enjoy all the deluxes we have gotten over the years, and all for different reasons. If I want to fiddle with something, I'll pick up a newer one, say RiD15, CW, or pre-movie Classics and Trilogy figures. Now I agree that WFC Prime is a fantastic figure. He photographs well and is just cool. But to play with, no, he is not cool, lol. Movie toys were okay. Their alt modes were real cool, bot modes were "meh", and transformation was okay. That said, I think everytoy for the most part excels at something except Blazemaster, lol.
     
  9. Rockdown

    Rockdown Dream Commander

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    It is a fact that the present day deluxes are inferior to deluxes of years ago: CW Sunstreaker is nothing compared to Universe Sunstreaker. RID Jazz is nothing compared to HFTD Jazz.
     
  10. thenatureboywoo

    thenatureboywoo Veteran

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    I think the target audience comes into play here, though. RTS Jazz (I assume you mean this one, and not Human Alliance Jazz) I feel, was aimed more towards the adult collectors. In contrast, I believe the RiD15 line is aimed towards the younger audience. Making their toys simpler to play with for a younger child. just my two cents.
     
  11. Morbo

    Morbo Knowledge Brings Fear

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    GoalieBot makes some good points about the supply side of the pricing increasing. The other side of the equation that needs to be pointed out is the demand side.

    The sad and somewhat ironic fact is that it's also because of us collectors. They can't increase price unless the market's willing to buy, or else profit still drops. And the market is still willing to buy droves of deluxe class figures because of the droves of adult collectors still joining the TF train, and that collectors, despite forum whining, still buy them all. Grown-ups with disposable income and who partly identify themselves by their hobby = inelastic demand = higher prices and the ability to drop product complexity.
     
  12. Matty

    Matty @StayingInTheBox Veteran

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    Spot on. Everyone needs to take a step back, put on your business school hat, and read this. This is VERY, VERY realistic.
     
  13. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Zenryoku zenkai!

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    I think you're on to something with the level of complexity. There is *some* fun to a tricky transformation that can make two very nice looking modes. But by the same token it becomes a measure in frustration when I go to fiddle around with my collection.

    Meanwhile, I've been obsessively flipping the CW limbs (and torsos) from bot to alt to arm to leg and back again almost two or three times a week just to display different combinations and give different looks.

    Because it's fun. The figures look great in both modes, and while they aren't as poseable or have as many moving parts...the fact I can just quick change them from mode to mode does have it's advantages.

    By comparison: I picked up AoE Voyager Drift on clearance, and while both modes don't look too bad (Bayformer elements aside) the transformation can be fiddly at times which makes it hard to go back and forth.

    And while I love the Beast Wars, the few Generations versions we've gotten are TERRIBLY fiddly to the point where I don't think I've ever actually put any of them in Beast Mode more than once. And I'm the kind of person who can figure out a transformation just by holding a figure.

    I admit I was skeptical of CW/RiD when I read about simpler transformations. But having played with them I completely understand what Hasbro is going for. I could hand any of these limbs to a kid and not worry about them ruining it forever because they accidentally broke one of the many tabs/flaps/pegs off of the figure.
     
  14. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Zenryoku zenkai!

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    I've heard some mention that Hasbro often has to make Case Assortment decisions based on combined weight. Given that, do you think the molds chosen and how they're designed are factored in to that at all to ensure that they can ship ensure that a team of 4, with 2 of each member, can be consistently shipped for a fairly steady cost?
     
  15. Noideaforaname

    Noideaforaname Pico, let's go up to Zuma

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    Isn't all this economic talk basically saying the same thing the naysayers are? That the toys are getting worse in multiple ways because Hasbro wants more money.
     
  16. Bainreese

    Bainreese Well-Known Member

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    Which is completely conjecture and subjective.
     
  17. Exodus

    Exodus Well-Known Member

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    Yes love his swords as well! And every mold they've used to make it as well haha...Don't forget Drift and his sword too :p 

    Yeah the combiner's for the FOC were so badly designed and could barely stand on it's own. Granted I think us TF fans jumped on them cause of the game that came out to represent it. I'm just so glad I was able to get rid of them all except the sdcc bruticus and get for what I paid for them...

    Agree with the first Gen line, every time I look at my Drift and Blurr and how they're almost the same height as the voyagers makes me wonder what happened...
     
  18. Ragnar

    Ragnar Fun with G1

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    I do miss the lower price points regardless of what the perceived quality was. It was fun heading to Wal-Mart or Target after Christmas to pick up a bunch of Armada or Energon deluxe figures on clearance for $3-5 each. Of course, now I need to store said figures (once I didn't really like all that much to begin with). But at least they were cheap! I'm not sure I'll ever be able to purchase a deluxe-sized TF figure on clearance for $3-5 ever again.
     
  19. Goaliebot

    Goaliebot All Makes and Models

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    Close, but more like: the toys are facing cutbacks, some of which are worse for us collectors, because Hasbro and its current management can't risk shrinking the company's value - due to shareholders being unwilling/unable to yet accept that the traditional toy market is shrinking significantly.

    If the toy market continues to shrink (probable) and Hasbro doesn't find ways to replace lost profits in traditional toys (risky), then a tipping point will arrive where they have no choice bit to shrink. This could go many ways, some good for us (more collectors lines), some not (cheaper toys focused on global markets).

    Hasbro is cutting back on toy costs and raising prices, yes. But not because of their own greed or evil (well, no more than any corporation). But rather because they currently have no choice due to a shrinking traditional toy market.

    The same shrinking traditional toy market causing smaller toy depts in big chain stores, and poorer stock.

    We are living in the biggest shift in the toy market since the introduction of home consoles. Maybe worse, since console use in the '80s and '90s was limited by use of the family TV and a parental mistrust of video games being played too long at a time.
     
  20. videriant

    videriant Well-Known Member

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    This was from a different thread but I pulled Hasbro's financials. We can't really separate TF out from the total business but TF's are probably the most volatile of their major brands.

    Hasbro (all Hasbro) Net Earnings %:
    2005 - 6.9% (Cybertron, Alternator, Titanium)
    2006 - 7.3% (Cybertron, Alternator, Titantium)
    2007 - 8.7% (TFTM, Classics)
    2008 - 8.6% (TFTM, Animated, Universe 2.0)
    2009 - 9.2% (ROTF, Animated, Universe 2.0)
    2010 - 9.9% (ROTF, HFTD, RTS)
    2011 - 9.0% (DOTM, TFP:FE, Generation)
    2012 - 8.2% (DOTM, Prime, FOC)
    2013 - 7.0% (TFP:BH, Generation)
    2014 - 9.7% (AOE, Generation)
    2015 - unv (RID, CW)

    1) I see a big jump from 2006 to 2007. Probably movie related.
    2) The rest of the time it hangs around 9% until 2012 & 2013. Maybe oil price related? Who knows. But the crappy offerings of FOC and Prime wasn't making them any more money, % wise.
    3) Big jump back to 9.7%. ????

    And in case anyone wants it, here are the total earnings, million
    2005 - $212
    2006 - $230
    2007 - $333
    2008 - $307
    2009 - $375
    2010 - $398
    2011 - $385
    2012 - $336
    2013 - $286
    2014 - $416

    Same, inflation adjusted to 2014.
    2005 - $173
    2006 - $194
    2007 - $288
    2008 - $277
    2009 - $338
    2010 - $369
    2011 - $362
    2012 - $325
    2013 - $282
    2014 - $416