It was fun listen while I rested between my sets, but had no impact on me as a fan or consumer. As long as 3rd parties make awesome toys, and maybe bring those price points down (if the market allows for it), and continue to put the same level of attention into their products as I've been seeing so far- we're good.

The guys in the video seem to genuinely care about the toys and less about being d-bags. It was refreshing! Truthfully, whatever goes on behind the scenes of toy production is as irrelevant as the majority of fan opinion right in front of me. I hope the designers take posts that bubble up around here with a grain of salt as well- some of the most active and seemingly informed posters are also the biggest trolls.

Fanstoys, KFC, Toyworld, KBB, Wukong- if you're selling, I'm buying!

 

Chris,

Do you know if there is anything being done in the 3P companies to address the insane level of concept duplication? I mean it was okay back when we got a 9 different Blaster concepts, 10 different Dinobots, and the like because each company had a different size class and style, but now that all the companies are fixited on "cartoon accurate MP" designs, we end up with 3-4 nearly IDENTICAL toys within months of each oher (Inferno, Reflector, Hound, Insecticons), which must be splitting the (already small) market. Someone must either have to say 'Okay you make Hound, I'll do Inferno, this guy will make Insectcions" or "okay we are all making Jazz, but you do MP Jazz, I'll do War Within Jazz, he'll do IDW Jazz, this guy will make Legends Jazz...)?

 

Couple things based on the conversation over the last couple pages in this thread:

Just because Chris's personal time in HK ended in 2014 doesn't mean his information magically stopped abruptly in 2014. It's a mistake to think that he just completely stopped talking to the people he knows there or somehow his information is no longer valid.

Second thing, there's nothing wrong with naming the middleman that became a focal point of the conversation, because when someone is doing something nefarious the right thing is to help people become aware of it so they can avoid it or fix it. And that middleman is right to be judged for doing bad things. You can't lay out a case where you describe someone who is basically f*cking over everyone on the price of 3P figures and then say "oh but I won't name him because people might judge him". That's nonsense.

 

Chris, can you tell us what the best third party toy concepts you have seen that did not end up getting released.

 

Honestly, even if he does know who the "middleman" is .. How will it help us exactly? He could name Keith/whomever, but that doesn't and wouldn't help us. Especially not us in the USA. Asian/Easterners and the Euro crowd may benefit slightly because they can buy "directly" from China/HK, without being completely gouged with shipping, like we are.

We'll forever be screwed unless ToyWorld, FansToys, etc etc start selling directly to us, instead of sending stock to retailers. And this will probably never happen.

 

If you listened to the podcast, the middleman is jacking up the prices retailers are charged as well, so if the middleman can be ousted or worked around, everyone's prices can come down. All it takes is a little coordination. There are benefits to continuing to work through retailers. The problem is the alleged distribution middleman that adds no real value and just makes things cost more for their own personal profit, basically holding 3P producers hostage by offering to buy all their stock or else their product won't see distribution at all, and then turning around and charging basically twice as much to retailers, who then have to charge slightly more just to turn a profit. So instead of paying a reasonable markup for a product that costs relatively little to produce, we're paying significantly more.* If the middleman didn't exist, and 3P producers shipped directly to retailers, we would be paying closer to the actual production cost plus a reasonable markup.


*side note: the general markup insight from Chris during the podcast also vindicated those who have pointed out over the years that many of the 3P figures should cost nowhere near their retail price to actually R&D and produce.

 

I just find it strange because BBTS/ToyDojo/everyone else always mentions they're in contact with ToyWorld/FT/Etc and seem to get their stock from them.

Never once did they ever mention having to contact a 3rd party (hah!) to complete sales/shipping/stock. Same thing goes when contacting them for replacement parts.

I don't think they call Keith, and then Keith talks to FT, and then FT sends the parts to Keith, and then he sends them over to the retailers.

This just seems so .... Muddy. And doesn't make much sense at all. I mean, Maybe? Unless Chris or Venksta speaks out, we'll never know.

 

Is "the middleman" actually Keith X? Chris doesn't confirm it, but this comment seems to hint at him being the middleman...at least, that's the impression I got.

There's also his comment about Dr. Wu not wanting to work with Keith X, because they don't get along. Why would he be hanging around?

 

Do you know what would be deliciously fak'ing weird/amazing?

People always wonder why 3P "gets away with this stuff!!" "Copyrights!!" Etc etc ...

The western world sends all their shit to China to be made. If Keith owns the factories that HasTak uses .. Well then. There you go. HasTak may have mentioned something at some point, and Keith probably just told them to Fak off, or find another factory to use.

How wonderful it is that the official shit is probably under his control as well. Lest they want to start opening factories here in the USA and Japan.

 

It is odd considering they all apparently talk to each other...although, I would speculate that this is probably more how it used to work. And then the Predaking War happened and they all got pissed at each other and aren't so loosey goosey with one another anymore. Instead, now one group reveals a figure and the others all rush to get what they have out there to try and get people to stick with theirs.

I don't think KFC Keith is the middleman. I think it's a certain overseas retailer...but don't know that for fact, only what I've concluded based on various rumors and evidence.

 

Wow. I just wanted to express my gratitude to Chris for his time and insight. So much speculation and rumor swirls around these forums and it's so nice to get some clarification from someone 'in the know'. I think I've learned more in this one thread about 3P production than all the other 3P threads combined.  

I don't have any specific questions for Chris, but I would very much appreciation more insight into KeithX (XTB\KFC), BadCube (they seem to be left out of any discussion thus far), and Fans Toys. I'm a huge G1 MP fan and those three companies (entities?) are by far my favorite among the 3P world. It would be interesting to know if they interact with one another and how each one relates to this 'middleman' that Chris refers to.

Also I'm kind of curious about the remark Chris made about designers selling their designs to the 'middleman' for $1,000 or so. That sounds really cheap to me if it's for an entire figure? Among the designers, 539Designs, Omnigonix, and Jesslyn are the only ones that I believe are generally known around here. All are amazingly talented and I would hope are getting more than $1,000 for each design. There's also been some speculation regarding more than one designer with Fans Toys. I wonder if Chris might be able to shed any light on that?

Anyways, thanks again Chris and I really look forward to your next discussion. Best wishes to you and your brother, and please don't be nervous (anxious), you're greatly appreciated!  

 

RobotKingdom? Screw them then. I bought from them like twice. And then the random shipping increase happened and I never looked back. I don't get how Japanese retailers like AmiAmi (just about as far away as China) and HLJ can offer amazing EMS prices (gets to you in 3~4 days) and then there are the likes of PSX and RobotKingdom who charge more and takes longer (sometimes) to get to you.

 

Mr. Robotkingdom has long been "suspected" of being what's described here as the Middleman.

 

I mean, it is right in the name? If he owns the Robot Kingdom, doesn't that make him the King?

In all seriousness, I just wanted to give Chris a sincere thank you for all that cool information! What a wild adventure the 3rd Party world seems to be!

I know everyone is peppering you with questions, so I will toss in one of my own: Considering the designer change @ HasTak in late 2014, derailed the planned Year of the Decepticon, do you think we will ever see those plans come to fruition (i.e. MP Combaticons & Galvs)?

 

Chris, what size class was that canceled Trypticon toy you mentioned on the show?

 

Man involved with DR. Wu spills the beans on 3rd party and HasTak

Something REALLY interesting I found while browsing /toy (on the 4chan).

One of the folks behind DR. WU has massive insider info in regards to 3p info and info about how HasTak is attacking the 3p market.

The Plastic Empire Podcast Interview with Chris Sterett of Dr. Wu

Bullet points include:

>HasTak is directly competing with 3P by releasing MPs every month.
>Keith owns everything.
>There are only about four people running all third party companies.
>Talk of a "middleman" who distributes to Asia who bullies all third parties. All American companies
get their stock from him.
>There is a LOT of drama behind the scenes.
>Spinout was a POS on purpose. There's another Sunstreaker coming out soon and Spinout's
manufacturing was sabotaged to appear inferior.
>Quality issues are usually caused by bad assembly team (designs are too complicated for them to
understand) or rushed mold process.
>Dr. Wu goes to the factory himself to supervise assembly of his products.
>Dr. Wu (the person) doesn't get along with Keith. He is also a real doctor.
>HasTak like to show up at third party factories. They also like to talk with the 3P designers and
share ideas.
>HasTak had a MP Bruticus in the works for the Year of the Decepticon, one Combaticon every
other month. This was canned.
>Galvatron was planned for 2015, but was messed up because of Takara's designer.
>Designs for 3P figures are purposefully sabotaged so that upgrades can be made later to make
more money.
>3P has inside info on new Takara releases, usually because of Takara employees blabbing.

 

Already a few days old here.

 

wasn't aware. I didn't see anything about it. sorry.

 

if keith owns everything, does he own us? are we pawns in his sick game?

are we... Keith's Fantasy Club?

 

3rd party forum, first 5 to 6 pages are the active pages lol.