Not enough upgrade kit producers for classics IMHO.

I though Wu did tease a Alpha Trion staff though?

 

I hope Dr. Wu isn't finished, there's still so much product they can make like better heads for TR Galvatron and Scourge as well as mini figures of Season 2 Carly and Season 3 Marissa Fairborne.

 

This is very interesting and I'll be curious to see how it plays out. Makes sense. Gotta be tough to sell 3 or 4 of the same character meant to fill the same spot in a collection. It's kind of annoying that the 3Ps do this, but it does lead to competitive prices and the option to pick your fave of the bunch...so mixed feelings on the practice itself.

 

LOL, you've must've been taking notes! Great info!

 

I thought I saw an article somewhere that Dr. Wu was planning a new Spike and Sparkplug Partners set, this time without the hard hats.

 

I know the Fandom keeps harping here about how great it is to have choice, to have multiples of characters but little do they realize how actually bad it is for the Fandom, not good.

First of all the pie is only so big. meaning the number of people buying does not change significantly from year to year unless you have a movie year. so that means retailers are normally all selling to the same number of people. multiples does not mean more sales, the retailer has the same number of sales for the most part but the expenses are higher having to buy from multiple manufacturers and multiple shipping times. that is a loss for the retailer. eventally they will carry less and less quantity and/or maybe choose selective brands only. Loss for the retailer. The real looser is the manufacturer tho as now they are selling less and less. if 3 companies are doing the same figure, each company can now only manufacture half or a third of the quantity if they were the only one making the figure. now the manufacturer risks things like poor sales, sitting on inventory and essentially possible losses to the point where it can ruin a company.

Now you may ask...how does the Fandom loose? well 3p is already priced higher than it really should be. thank goodness it is because at this point, if originally 3p were charging actual proper pricing, they would be out of business with production runs getting smaller and smaller. There is a significant difference in producing 6000 pieces and 3000 pieces. it means now the mold cost MUST be covered by the 3000 and that means higher retail prices for you.

So next time you run around stating how awesome this is to be a collector, realize we are taking about very low production run on collectible toys, not choices in the pop isle at the supermarket putting out choice from giant corporations who just don't really give a damn .

 

Wow so many assumptions in there lol

 

don't want to sound like a jackass, but i don't care about duplications.
vendors need to decide who they will carry if they are worried about it.

i only care that Takara and FT makes the figures and I'll buy from whichever vendor that carries it (preferrably toy dojo or capturedprey).

 

Hard to feel bad for them when they're the ones choosing to release the same shit as each other. As for how it affects me? Well, my collection is nearly finished. Sucks for everyone else, though. In the meantime, I'll just enjoy the lower prices the competition brings.

 

so can you refute his assumptions with anything more than your own?

 

Sorry man, having worked both at the retailer level and at the manufacturer level, I can assure you these are not assumptions but are indeed the way it is.

Having been in collectible retail for over 20 years I can assure you this trend is not new. I have seen it happen time and again in the past with other brands and toy lines. Many companies come and go and ruin their own market with duplication nonsense.

Kubrick, bear brick, bax bears, munny, bunny, etc. ....... just to mention a market that fully destroyed itself.

 

I definitely experienced 3p burnout. I was all over the many releases in an effort to augment my official collection. But numerous times I would buy a figure only to see the release of another companies version of it and have to either take a loss selling the first one in order to justify purchasing the newer one if I liked it. And the problem has only gotten more prevalent recently with 4+ companies releasing a Hoist, Sixshot, or Springer. I finally decided I was happier to skip the majority and stick with official releases and 3p stuff that is outside of the MP aesthetic.

 

I get where you are coming from, sort of like too many options is just as bad as too few.

 

Problem is you're claiming and assigning losses to one party without fully considering the other parties. Doesn't matter if you have xp in certain roles when you're making fundamental economic oversights in your assessment of the market as a whole and the impact of your various hypotheticals on other parties than the one you have a perspective on.

Also, a more general observation: We seem to be forgetting the time factor. When one company announces their version of a figure but isn't releasing it for several months after a competitor, there is significantly less inventory overlap, especially in a market where the bulk of the sales occurs via pre-order (which helps right-size the actual inventory purchased) and the day/week of release. The impact is significantly less for retailers than if all 3-4 were dropping within a couple weeks of one another. It also gives time for consumers to save up and some will potentially get one of each, especially if they're a fan of that character.

Just for a couple recent examples, GT J4ZZ will have come and mostly gone before MT Downbeat drops. FT Sixshot is likely about a year away (unless they see enough demand to re-order their production schedule, but regardless), DX9's will have come and gone by then. GCreation's too. It is quite rare to have four separate manufacturers hitting the market with physical product at the same time for the same figure, let alone in the same scale. Not that it can't happen, just that it's not a common occurrence or indicative of the current situation.

 

Are you by any chance Spencer from A3U?

 

Sorry, I am not fully understanding your statement here. Perhaps you can provide an example of what you are referring to? I can assure you the losses I am claiming pertain across the board and all 3p companies feel the consequences on multiple releases. I am curious as to what oversight you are referring to and perhaps can elaborate a little bit.

While normally I would agree with you unfortunately is it not quite that way. first, the number of people who double dip is not nearly as big as you may think and not so big as to be able to sustain an entire production run. for example, Megatron. xtrans got to market first and sold tons of their version. production on that figure is over 10k, very successful in terms of 3p. retailers sold out quick and wanted more and more were made available. even watching the forums, you can see the level of support this figure has. along come MT and dx9. both production runs under 5k each and yet both figures are not performing well and available everywhere. this means that even with double dipping on such an important character can't consume double the quantity and both MT and DX9 are far superior figures in terms of production and build quality then the xtrans one.

Downbeat/J4ZZ is a fair example but different market share. J4ZZ is not aimed at the G1 MP crowd due to the difference in design and is meant for a more varied collection while downbeat is aimed right to the very loud current trend of cartoon acurate MP collectors.

As for the Sixshot, dx9 will now be reconsidering their production run due to the announced of FT solely on the fact that FT will dominate the market with the sheer amount of followers they have. But even there, FT felt the sting of their own confidance on their Willis believing that the gundog on the market would not effect their sales numbers but Willis did not meet FT expectations at all. FT believe themselves to be the top of the 3p scene at the moment and use that confidance in an effort to short sales on other 3p figures.

The 3p market is still pretty small compared to overall with Takara figures of the same character outselling 3 or 4 to 1 in many instances. also transformers is no longer a preorder market and both retailers and manufacturers are not using preorder any longer as a way to judge purchase quantities meaning that currently everyone involved is only guessing what is needed. this also is bad for everyone involved and super risky.

Please don't get me wrong I fully appreciate a well thought out conversation with valid points and examples. It is much better than the 'you are wrong!' statement with absolutely no substance or back up to follow. There are 3 main parts to our marketplace and I have met very very few who have access to all 3 parts of them, consumer, retailer and manufacturer.

Yes.

 

Well, i would definitely prefer 5 different characters get toys than get 5 versions of one character... Or at the very least 5 different size classes of the same character instead of 5 MP versions of him, so i can pick the one i want.

 

Spence - Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree with a lot of what you're saying including the impact of, for example, FT announcing that they're doing a Six Shot. Regarding the economic forces discussion -- perhaps another time. It's not that what you're saying is wrong, just that there are additional considerations I think you are missing in your assessment. Sorry for the snarky comment earlier, there are a lot of limited, narrow perspectives on the market here and your initial post read a bit like one, albeit from a different perspective than the average consumer. Cheers.

 

Thanks mate. I look forward to hearing more of your insight and hope that we do indeed get a chance to discuss it further. it is hard to find fully informative discussion on this highly volitile topic. perhaps at next year's tfcon? i'll buy.

 

To Spence and others, this sidetopic is pretty interesting so I'll chime in too since I need a distraction from all the pre orders that are taking my retirement away.

As far as MP style multiple characters go, I think XTB and KFC have gone slavish G1 and will sell anything they make for that reason alone. FT is very G1ish and even though they a FT minor style deviation, they have a great reputation and will sell most everything they make for that reason alone. Maketoys has great quality and design and will sell every headmaster they make but I can't tell on the rest of their line. I think Takara Tomy will sell everything they make because their quality is diminishing but will sell huge quantities of anything they make around the world since the loyalists will buy to the end and they outway the 3p refined palate fans. I think the other companies will suffer and the retailers will also suffer if they try to carry every version Just my thoughts on MP style.