Yes you have read it right, I meant pants-formers. If you are not acquainted with the term, it's basically combiners that make use of fake crotches and thighs to achieve a higher height and sometimes better proportions and aesthetics.

There are others that go as far as using totally fake torsos and crotches ("torsoformers") and I will quote franpincho on this one: the "fakeformers" where almost all the body is a fake piece... Self explanatory isn't it? Lol.

This discussion arises from time to time in the 3P forum and I am almost certain that it has to do with our different goals as collector, some want simple transformations, others want almost perfect transformations, some people just want a good looking figure regardless of the process of going from point A to B...

I am an engineer and as such, I demand high end engineering, I want to be amazed, I giant "pretty" piece of plastic doesn't do anything for me... that's the main reason behind my collecting activity and that's why I don't like "pantsforming". But please let me know what do YOU think?

Please choose a category that you feel you could fit in and explain why you chose it and what would be a more "interesting solution" to make a cool combiner. You are allow to choose two. Don't forget to keep the discussion civil please  

 

I don't care as long as the end result is a functional combiner that can be combined and decombined without damaging the figures. I have been collecting Transformers since G2. I have bought and loved Micromaster combiners (the ancient equivalent of the "modern" FT/Zeta style pants-forming combiners), Tripedacus/Magnaboss (all-in-one), and the more traditional that are a mix, like the G1 Style Gestalts and their modern official equivalents. My favorite of my combiners is Feral Rex, who could've benefited from some better hips but I don't know if pants-forming would've necessarily been the solution to fix that (though it could've been, who knows). It really just depends on how well a combiner is designed and built, none of these different styles are necessarily better than the others.

 

I'm a "I brought it because it looked cool to me so 'any-forming' is a non-issue" type.

Not the focus I think of when buying a figure.

 

I want a stable, good looking combiner but not at the expense of the individual bot and alt modes. A nice pair of pants is the best way to get all three.

 

Parts useful only in one mode will always be dumb and a dealbreaker to me - Deviations away from the fantasy of recreating the magic of gestalts in physical form by forcing you to imagine away why parts appear and disappear in our physical reality.
This is compounded by the fact that the media does not depict the same reality and is therefore inconsistent with the toys, making them even less show accurate.

As for the OP trailer arguement, this is baseless as a comparison for the following reasons:
1. The trailer had never been portrayed as transforming out of OP.
2. OP does not need the trailer for his robot or even his truck cab only alt mode.
3. The trailer does serve a purpose as being either a recognizable item that exists in real life in that same state when not used by a truck cab, or does open upto offer base playability and guns, repair bay features, etc. A pair of robot pants does nothing when not being used as robot pants.

I will take some small sacrifices in bot and alt modes for an all inclusive gestalt, and this has been done quite well for many figures with very little actual "expense" in looks or stability so long as you don't make a heavy, multi piece robot try to do gymnastics. Sure toyworld Constructor is more stable than others, but what's even more stable is a photo of devastator on your wall, or even better, the devastator in your imagination.

 

I like iron factory’s solution of having the extra combiner bits form a bust. It, in my opinion, does a good job of making a good combined mode, a display piece, and if you aren't into it, it’s at least a solid clump you can hide behind some display cubes, or other figures. I like the idea of no partsforming, but until the laws of matter can be easily manipulated, it just isn't feasible toy design. However i would prefer at least an attempted trailer, bust, or series of cumbersome weapons. So i guess.. yeah i want partsformers to at least try to be a transformer.

 

When tfc Hercules first started to appear it was a mind blowing scavenger that integrated a full arm in to the classic constructicon, well.... Sort of, it still parts formed the hand.

Regardless people were shocked and excited. I look at that figured now and my main issue is just how much long haul suffers, with his purple legs. And a few years later we get an official devastator and again long haul suffers.

I tolerate pantsforming for the long hauls of the world

 

I just think of optimus prime's trailer..

 

I think the artistic director was like, i don't know, put some yellow laser lines on it.

 

When Teletran One reformatted the Autobots, he created their Alt-modes from their bodies, so OP's trailer would naturally be apart of him. His personal energon and I would gather the Matrix, gave him the ability to Energy/matter matter/energy conversion as shown in that clip.

BAM!  

 

so I just think of parts forming like optimus trailer.. 

 

@BIOMEC while we are on opposite sides of this topic (as you seem to make partsforming your hill to die on so-to-speak and often comment negatively about it) I gotta give you props for making a pretty decent poll.  

I'd have liked some different wording on certain poll options, for example while I'm mostly a display guy, I also appreciate good engineering. And not just articulation is important but also stability when posing (something the Toyworld/ZetaToys hip piece really does well).

It is also possible to create a combiner with partsforming that is still highly enjoyable to transform. This is why the third option in your poll ("display only, don't care about transforming") is not really a useful option. I (and potentially many others) care a lot about how the figure displays and also care how it transforms -- and we don't mind if it uses some partsforming to attain the best of both worlds. I don't see an option in the poll that quite captures that perspective, which is likely to be a very popular choice if it is presented that clearly.

There is also a difference between two groups that is important but somewhat nuanced -- enjoying and even preferring a good transformation is not the same thing as preferring or even demanding there be no partsforming. They are two separate things.

Anyway, one other discussion point not often mentioned, but this seems like a good place to discuss it:

I think it is possible with current technology to engineer a masterpiece combiner team that not only scales properly in robot and alt modes, but also in combined mode, without a "cheat" the TW/ZT hip piece, however it would be cost-prohibitive for a 3P to do so and it would likely rate low on the transformation fun scale.

The sacrifices made for a combiner like MMC's Assaultus (overall combined mode height, combiner head size, multi-part hands, unavoidably chunky parts on the limb bots in order to swallow combiner fist and feet parts, and potential sacrifices that are still unknowns like overall stability and articulation) are required in order to do it within the budget available at a normal masterpiece combiner price range.

Those who place a higher value on all-in-one design over the combiner's visual presence and potential physical integrity/articulation/balance are willing to make that exchange. Those who place a higher value on the end result aren't. It's great that we have options now for both, at least for Bruticus. It will be interesting to see where the poll totals end up.

There are also scenes where it just rolls out (pun intended) from a random alleyway behind him as he transforms into vehicle mode. OP was the original partsformer, even in the cartoon where real-world physics needn't (and often don't) apply, so partsforming as a concept is inherently part of the Transformers universe from its very beginning.  

 

I'm definitely in the "Other" category. I simply don't care to "love" or "hate" them. If I had say my thoughts on it are that I appreciate that it can allow for better Stunticons or better Aerialbots without compromising them for adding in combined mode.

I will buy MMC's Bruticus, but for the interesting engineering. I am not convinced about how the quality will be though. Also I feel the look has been compromised. The Bruticus chest is not convincing, the combined feet are bad, and Swindle's legs also appear to be compromised. Something about Blast Off also seems off to me, but I can't identify it.

 

Thanks, yes we have polarized opinions, but that’s natural, everyone has different reasons to collect and that's is reflected in our preferences regarding almost anything.
As long as there are companies that cater to our particular preferences, then all of us can be happy (in theory  ).

I created this thread just to have a better understanding of what people think about this "controversial" topic.

 

I'm all for non parts forming combiners but the problem is I havent yet to see one as good as a 'pantsformer' in stability or looks.

Maybe Zeta Predaking will prove me wrong, until then the best option is pant/torso forming

 

i mean, dont they usually come with parts anyway? hands, feet, chest shields etc? these are parts that dont originate from the combining bots themselves, then theres guys like Omega Supreme, he's all about parts-forming as is the idea of combiners in general. if its ok for the regular bots (non-combiners) to have accessories like weapons, shoulder cannons and replaceable hand gadgets etc, what the is the difference with gestalts having the same kinda thing?

 

If the extra parts actually did something besides being the combined robot body you stick the others on I would be more on board. It does make for a taller, better looking combined mode, but it feels kind of like a copout that you have most of the combined mode sitting off to the side when the combiner is separated. At least that's how I lean. Warbotron almost hit my preferred solution the with Onslaught's trailer becoming the combiner thighs, (although Warbotron hasn't aged as well as I would have hoped)

Edit- I do notcare about partsforming. Combiners and partsforming have gone hand in hand forever.

 

I choose option 2. Ideally I'd love to have combiners with no extra parts aside maybe from hands and feet but for now the pants seem to be the best option to achieve solidity and good proportions for both the combiner and the individual bots.

 

It's the name, you're welcome  

Well, not sure how to feel about pantsformers myself, because I think both they are cheating and better looking, so just a matter of personal decision in each one of them. Integrated parts into all modes is the balanced compromise to me.

 

Using 'problem' in the title is interesting.

No problems. It gives the size, the proportions, the strongest joints and the best articulation.

I don't see how any of that can be deemed a 'problem'?