The Long Halloween might be happening.

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by UltraAlanMagnus, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. QLRformer

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  2. SouthtownKid

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    Animated sure, but the look was created by American artists, not Japanese. Character designs done by American artists. Storyboarded by American artists. I mean, Sunbow GI Joe's character designs were all done by legendary comic book artist Russ Heath, ffs. Batman: TAS was storyboarded by comic artists such as Darwyn Cooke, Will Meugniot, Paul Rivoche, etc.

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    Obviously, the episodes animated by Toei turned out better than the episodes animated in Korea, but don't discount the contribution of the original artists who actually designed and created the shows.
     
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  3. QLRformer

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    Chinatown showdown.
     
  4. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    So far it seems they are altering the dialog a lot which is screwing with the flow on the scenes they kept and changing whole parts of the story and scenes of character building of many of the mob personas. Also adding Catwoman in many scenes she wasn't in while not making her as playful of sexual as she was in the comic. They have also taken out many of the scenes of the Gordon and dent family interacting. It's added in characters that weren't in the original story and majorly altered the pacing and altered the flow. Which is making scenes that should be interesting boring and many scenes play out too long. Many major mob characters from the comic like Carla Viti get few to no lines. The entire Opening scenes from the first comic which establish everyone and shows the Roman's family and how they interact with each other is gone. Johhny Viti is killed off without showing his personality his wedding or interacting with his Mother who plays a major part in the story. We don't get the early scenes of Bruce interacting with Selena at the wedding. In fact their scenes are boring and tame compared to the comic both as Catwoman and Selena. she should be more sensual and teasing. It's like they took the original story and took out most of the fun and character building stuff except for the joker scenes and had a soccer mom rewrite the script. They are also missing a lot of the clues and misdirects from the comic about Holiday. It felt watered down. They just can't do a good adaptation like they used to.
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  5. Deathcatg

    Deathcatg Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen it yet, but sounds like a lot of that is time issues. Even with two movies, condensing an Maxi-series that had as many issues as Long Halloween did is asking a lot. At least it has two movies, I wish they were able to do the same for "All-Star Superman".
    Also, me not watching it isn't an stance on the movies or anything, just right now it's smarter for me not to go out and spend 25-30+ dollars whenever these movies come out like I did before, I'm sure they're still fine films and I'll see them eventually.
     
  6. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    The Batman Catwoman chase scene goes on for way too long and as does a batmoblie chase scenes not in the book, not to mention several new mob character fights not in the book. Same with some of the joker scenes, it seems they added fights where there weren't any and the time they take up could have been used to show the scenes I was talking about. There are also several mob character scenes not in the book that don't seem to add anything. I think they were changing things again so they didn't have to give Jeph Loeb residuals. I was hoping for a closer adaptation like Year One or at least something more in tone with it like the Long Halloween was. They don't even have the voice overs like in that movie explaining things and inner thoughts.

     
  7. SouthtownKid

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    This all sounds very sad.

    But this, I almost kind of understand. Even a lot of people who read the comic seem to misunderstand the solution to the mystery (as did Batman, which was one of the things that impressed me most about the original), so I sort of understand them thinking they had to simplify things for a cartoon watching audience.
     
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  8. rob_charb

    rob_charb Well-Known Member

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    I started watching it last night and couldn't finish it. The changes to the story didn't make any sense and the added fight scenes were, bluntly, lame. The scene with the Batmobile made zero sense. I was yawning during the Catwoman chase scene. And the animation is terrible in areas. Like, looks like it was made with Adobe Flash terrible. For some shows/movies that are meant to be cheesy and try to go for that bad animation look, like say Tigtone, it works. For a supposedly high-production DCAU movie, it does not. It makes the animation in that recent Superman reboot movie look downright gorgeous. But then in some scenes the animation is pretty good. There's little consistency from scene to scene. I don't know if I'm even going to bother finishing watching Part One. I might just get the comic down and reread that instead.

    I will give them this though, the redesign of Batman and Catwoman look much better than they did in the comic.
     
  9. BB Shockwave

    BB Shockwave Behold, Gagatron!

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    Weird. I could have sworn this had another topic for it...
    Anyway, nobody commented on the movies? Yes, now both episodes are out.
    I felt while this was very well animated and some of the additions, like showing Bruce and a young Carmine connect when Thomas saved his life, worked well. Others, like
    Selina knowing Bruce's identity
    added nothing.
    Harvey was weirdly suddenly acting schizophrenic in the second part, without really showing signs of it in the first. And even his iconic coin seemed like a confused mess, so apparently it originally belonged to Falcone, but then Bruce got it and then Harvey only crosses out one side after Batman reminds him it is no choice if both sides are the same?
    And I did not understand why they decided to
    to kill off Alberto in the first half.
    It changed nothing about who the original Holiday killer was, and anyone who read the comics knew that, so there was no curveball at least like with that Hush adaptation. It just made little sense to me, especially that
    Batman knows, and yet lets Gilda walk away scott free with multiple murders... just because they were criminals? Alberto was pretty innocent. And Batman does not condone vigilante murders.
    Still there were some nice scenes between Bruce and Selina and Bruce and Alfred. The post credits joke made me laugh, though I doubt this ties the story into any other DC animated universe.
    I guess Sofia could have survived though, so maybe the sequel can happen?
    Gotta say while Joker did little in the second half, he was really good overall. The muttonchops kinda work for him, and Troy Baker did a good job with the voice.

    Weird, for me that was a negative point. Batman and Catwoman just look like the TAS versions but in black. While needlessly stylized, the purple Catwoman suit with the tail and giant ears has been iconic to the series.

    Dude, for someone who posted this many panels of Catwoman, maybe you could get her name right. :D  It's Selina, not Selena.
    Frankly I think the sexuality was there, but just not as exaggerated as in the comic because
    Selina knows it's Bruce under the cowl, so she doesn't needlessly flirt with him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
  10. Deathcatg

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    I haven't seen these, but not sure how I feel about Bruce knowing Gilda's involvement and not doing anything. Maybe it works in context, but seems a little out of character even for a Year Two-ish Batman. I think I'm happier with the original comic where Bruce was didn't figure out Gilda doing murders. He's the World's Greatest Detective, but he doesn't have to figure everything out.
     
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  11. Tekkaman Blade

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    Damn spell correct. Every time I type something on my phone crap like that happens.
    She flirted with both Batman and Bruce in the comic. As I said it lost the tone of most of the characters and of the story. There weren't even good transitions to show time changes. There should be something to show this happens between months.
     
  12. rob_charb

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    Good lord, part two was terrible. Why the hell did they feel the need to change so much from the comic? It was just change for the sake of change. It did nothing for the story.
     
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  13. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Because if they change enough they don't have to pay residuals to the original creators of the story. Didn't use Tim Sale's art style don't have to pay him. Change the story enough don't have to pay Jeph Loeb. Where as Frank Miller got checks for the Dark Knight Returns and Year one movies.
     
  14. Deathcatg

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    Ugh, as if comic creators in this country weren't getting screwed enough on the rights department already.
     
  15. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    It's also the reason most of the recent movies have sucked so much. Unless they are an original idea. A lot of it is about not paying the original creators residuals. It more or less went corporate about 5 years back and that is why many of the movies are never as good as their source material, it's also why they kept inserting Damian into stories he wasn't in.
     
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  16. Megastar

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    The question I have is are people who haven't read the comic going to enjoy this film?
     
  17. Tekkaman Blade

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    Not sure I read the comic which was better written and paced, so I see the flaws, no idea what someone who hasn't read it would think.
     
  18. Raiju

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    My wife and I found the Long Halloween adaptation a veritable mixed bag. She's a longtime fan of the original comic run and was familiar with the source material but I wasn't.

    She wasn't too happy with the changes with Falcone's family dynamics, while I found the super predictable twist at the end with Gilda very weak. They should've kept the Alberto fake out and collab with her since it would've made more sense with his motivation.

    We also found it ridiculous how many times Catwoman had to swoop in to save Batman's incompetent ass again and again and again. Also, it made little sense why so many of Batman's supervillain rogue's gallery would show up to cause grief for Falcone even with Two-Face springing them from Arkham.

    The art direction and animation were pretty decent but the writing definitely had pacing and overly contrived plot issues that bothered the both of us.
     
  19. SouthtownKid

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    The greatest thing (imo) about the original comic
    is that they don't telegraph Gilda being the killer at all. The story makes sense in Harvey taking over being the killer to take all the suspicion onto himself and protect her, and I love that he's successful. Batman never figures it out. Even in the sequel comic series, Harvey manages to keep Batman from ever putting the pieces together and figuring out it was Gilda. To me, it makes Batman more human and more interesting that he could solve such a big case incorrectly and not even know.
     
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