The Last of Us: Part II

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by Rusty24, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Shockwave81

    Shockwave81 Protecting Cybertron from all hostile threats Moderator

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    Just finished the game and I have to say I “enjoyed it”, in the sense that it was a good (if somewhat cliched and predictable) exercise in seeing things from different perspectives.

    I grew to like Abby a lot, despite some of the shitty things she did, she wasn’t perfect, but that’s called being human - hard enough in real life, let alone a post-apocalyptic land.

    I’m sad for Ellie, not so much because of the events in this game, but her overall journey as a character in both games.

    A young girl having rare moments of joy in an unforgiving world that is hell bent on destroying her and anyone she loves, it’s no surprise that she ended up as she did by the end of TLOU2.
     
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  2. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just going to spill it all out. My thoughts regarding this game are all over the place but overall I'd say it's positive. Let me say, I think I would have went a different story structure and that the pacing of how the story was told could have been improved.
    The first game including its DLC add on, Left Behind were both pretty linear in terms of their storytelling anchoring on the relationship of either Joel and Ellie or Ellie and Riley. They were straightforward and played its strengths as an emotional bonding journey. With this one, I get that they wanted to freshen up the story and tell it non-linearly like it's Pulp Fiction or something.

    In terms of pacing, I honestly would have preferred to have Abby and Ellie's stories to be separate games. Abby is new and to suddenly throw her into the mix early on of TLoU2 is bit of a misguided surprise. For one, it cheats out the expectations we had for more Joel and Ellie. However...I will say I gradually stopped disliking Abby and came to the sense that the game wanted to explore something different which I appreciated. The universe of TLoU is obviously depressing and the sequel just cranks up that depressive state. I feel as if this game did justify that good and evil in this world is so hard to justify. Even for someone like big daddy Joel himself. I remember the first game Tess even told him that he and her were shitty people. And yeah, I agree. Joel is pretty self-indulgent. He's mainly out there to look after himself and his interests.

    Although that does bring back the observation that Joel in TLoU2 was just not himself at times and I can see why fans are pissed. Moving on from that, I do want to acknowledge that TLoU universe does portray LGBT characters well I feel. In a lot of media, sexuality can be forced onto characters without being meaningful but I honestly believe that there were facets given to these characters to make them stand out further. I like Jesse, Dina... I do like these characters to a degree. One problem I did have were character deaths...But the way this was portrayed was consistent in that not every time is an emotional farewell in place. I guess that's the point?

    Enough of the story. The gameplay is pretty fun, it's much more refined which is a given and I highly enjoy the stealth parts of the game. I like how they implemented the new dangers such as dogs (yes, I know the emotional turmoil when it comes to them) or the new Infected types we have. My favourites were the Seraphite people and their whistles. Honestly, I feel they did a fantastic job with tension and atmosphere in the game and I think it's more stressful on hard mode. I also enjoyed the segment where you traverse through a burning village. I will say it again, I could not praise the environmental stuff more and I think the game is worth it if you really enjoy photo mode. In fact, let me just say this game is worth it for all the slow-mos found on SunhilLegends' Twitter. :) 

    Overall, I don't hate it. The story could have been better but it is what it is for me. It's not my GOTY for the record, that still goes to Final Fantasy 7 Remake even though the graphics in that game aren't anywhere close to TLoU2. I'd rate it a 8/10.
     
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  3. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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  4. Detroa

    Detroa Well-Known Member

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    The first one is one of my favorite games ever. Maybe it's my favorite game, I'm not sure. The second one is the biggest video game disappointment of my life, and I started gaming with the NES, almost 30 years ago.
    When I finished the first game I thought "this game was incredible but for once, I'm not sure I want a sequel, it's perfect as a stand alone". Then the sequel was announced, I tried to keep an open mind, I avoided all the spoilers and dramas and even started to feel hyped at some point. When the game came out, I wanted to play it, I was curious and somewhat excited at the idea but I didn't have ridiculous expectations.

    The visuals are stunning. Except for RDR2 and Uncharted 4, I can't think of another console game from this gen looking that good (well, I think RDR2 looks better actually but I played it on One X so that's not really comparable). The dubs (I only used the original and the French ones) are very good just like with most ND games. And that's about it for the good part.

    The gameplay of the first game was OK for the time, nothing special but it was acceptable. The gameplay of the second game being barely updated seven years later is way less acceptable to me. I was bored with it before the first half of the game (which is waaaay too long in regard to its content).

    The story, storytelling and characters writing are definitely the biggest let down to me. Most the characters are empty and the ones who return aren't themselves anymore (yes, I know you can change in 4 years but what's the point of making a sequel with the same characters if you're gonna rewrite them completely?). The story has no rythmn, things happen too soon or too late which leads some scenes that should have a huge emotional impact to completely miss their goal. The complete lack of subtility don't help either. It constantly feels like the game is screaming "FEEL THIS", "THINK THAT" with the only argument being "BECAUSE I SAID SO". I've heard that the co-writter of the first game was fired and that this one was written by Druckmann alone. I don't know if it's true but if it is, I think I know who's the good writer.

    As for all the dramas/polemics that happened around the games (which I discovered after playing it), I'd say some are founded and some aren't. The whole (obviously) forced diversity thing, while being true, doesn't impact the game per say. I mean, I do get that you may not like it but it doesn't change anything to the story or the gameplay. On the other hand, there's definitely a huge issue with the communication around the game: you can't lie about half the game and tell the reviewers they can't talk about it. Also the way almost all the professionnal reviews were overly positive when the gaming community is so divided shows that there's a real objectivity issue with "video game journalism." (Of course I'm not saying that you can't like the game, I'm saying that it's impossible that 99% of the press liked it so much when so many players didn't. The issue was already obvious with Death Stranding but this time it's even more ridiculous.)

    In conclusion, the reason I hated it so much is pretty much the reason I liked the first one so much: they made the game in such a way that the story and characters are the most important parts of it. Since the writing was so good in the first one, I was completely in love with the result, and since the writing in this sequel is what it is, it completely ruined it for me. If they ever make a Part 3, I won't even bother playing it.
     
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  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Droppin' Space Colonies

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  6. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    Interesting take on the matter, although I can not say I agree with the way he reaches his conclusion.

    Too many people have already substantiated how most of the ingame persona's are broken by out-of-character decisions/choices and how the narrative structure is such a clusterphuk. So yes, there is indeed a problem with the story. I don't think this reviewer's context of forced military service changes that.

    His conclusion however, does resonate.
    Again, the MGS2 similarities are eerily present. Kojima found himself unable to show more depth to Snake's character from a protagonist player character point of view - so the result is he came up with the solution to force the player into playing as Raiden; that being the means of contextualizing Snake's depth of character.

    The difference to Druckmann however, is that Kojima succeeds where Druckmann fails.
    I say succeed, because MGS2's plot end does indeed produce resolve and a narrative message of hope; both of which are important elements to a videogame because they provide incentive to complete and replay the game - whereas TLOU2's ending was basically a narrative return to point zero, negative actually.
     
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  7. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    Hmmm, it seems Joel's rescue of Ellie at the end of TLOU1 was mostly justified from a real world legal point of view as illustrated in this video:

     
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  8. llamatron

    llamatron OFFICIAL MMC REP TFW2005 Supporter

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    Holy shit I can smell the obese Dorrito dust of this thread from afar.

    The poor treatment of employees is bad bad bad. The game however is absolutely phenomenal on all levels and an exceptional use of the medium. But the video game industry really needs to fix their shitty working culture issues.

    Thankfully it seems like people are paying less attention to manchild bad faith tantrums on the internet.
     
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  9. Maximus Danz

    Maximus Danz I own 6 Copies of the Megaman Legacy Collection

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    Thats all I've been doing
     
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  10. Maximus Danz

    Maximus Danz I own 6 Copies of the Megaman Legacy Collection

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    Thanks for posting the Yatzee link, I unsubscribed because I was sick to death of having 1 video every week... While having 500 Movie Blob videos a day.

    I may watch the Pissed Jose video.
     
  11. Superhans

    Superhans Well-Known Member

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    Just finished it. An absolute five star masterpiece in every way. Enjoyed every minute of it.

    Certainly one of the best games of all time. Probably the greatest videogame story ever. Moves the whole medium on about a decade.

    Look, they made bold choices. Every single one paid off for me. Loved the story. Loved the themes (it’s easily the most thematically resonant game ever). Loved every single new character. I get that they could have played it safe and given us “the continued adventure of Joel and Ellie” but I’m so glad they didn’t.

    Abby and Lev: best new characters of the year, no doubt. The way they played with perspective in this game was just incredible. I guess some people like to have a clear hero and villain, and for things to be reassuringly clear cut. They rarely are, especially in hardship.

    What a game.
     
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  12. Superhans

    Superhans Well-Known Member

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    I’m staggered. The above literally misses the point of the entire story.

    This is a horrendous take. Abby is a hugely textured character, and totally sympathetic by the end of the story. She’s probably the best written character in videogame history, by quite a distance.
     
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  13. bignick1693

    bignick1693 Maximal

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    I do believe that Abby is a huge textured character but I don’t think she is the best written character in video game history. I think Joel is better written as of Last of Us characters. I think Big Boss from MGS is the best written character in video game history. Kratos is another one especially in the PS4 God of War.
     
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  14. Superhans

    Superhans Well-Known Member

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    I think Abby is a much more interesting character than Joel.
     
  15. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Droppin' Space Colonies

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    Which is ironic given if you actually look at what happens in the story, Abby'd entire plot line (besides going golfing with Joel's head) is quite literally is just a copy-paste of what happens with Joel in the first game compressed down into mere days as opposed to months.

    Just imagine Lev as Ellie and pretty much its the exact same story beats point-for-point, including the mass murder of a bunch of people who want the kid for some reason.
     
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  16. Superhans

    Superhans Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry, have you played the game yet or are you still getting your opinions from YouTube videos?
     
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  17. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    Simple answer: He shaved his head.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  18. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Droppin' Space Colonies

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    And what difference does it make if I watched a cutscene on my own personal television or off of youtube? It's the same content.
     
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  19. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    Especially in this case of TLOU2 I believe these online fan debates are useless by now.

    Why?
    Well, despite the claim of 4 million copies shipped, the game is a disaster in every way thinkable.

    - Massive resell rates /unsatisfied customers
    - Massive marketing failure; the way the leaks were handled/pre-emptive damage control lies and lies post-shipping
    - Massive identity failure; the way they tried to silence and control media/streamer reception
    - Massive studio failure; they literally burned out their own studio development talent, being forced to hire temp replacements from other industries

    So I don't worry - this is going to backfire, it's not going to be truly rewarded - as it should not be.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  20. llamatron

    llamatron OFFICIAL MMC REP TFW2005 Supporter

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    Had to turn off my ignores to see this. Anyway it makes a huge difference ya goober, the method of delivery is pretty important in this case.