Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by blunghole, Oct 5, 2008.
Thought we saw a ko Earthrise Prime in the works a month or so ago???
Any of those KO Siege COG's on ebay at all ?
I'd like an Overscale Earthrise Optimus for sure - but I would like it to come with the back pack filler ideally.
How hard is it to find the newest (or one of the newest) overscales the one that is one size smaller than the biggest size and is kinda rare - and it has a Sideswipe with a remoulded roof and a hound with wing mirrors in the same line ?
I was just about to buy them only for the auctions to vanish on ebay
Anyone seen them lately ?
I messed myself up here because of how much taller MPP-10E compared to God of War Apex. Real question though, I've noticed another round of these OSKO SS-38s from Aoyi, WJ, etc. Seems like they've improved the feet and legs. If anyone has Apex (or any of the early OSKO SS38s) are any of the new ones a dramatic improvement?
You've misunderstood "layman's term". It means basically what you've just stated. The legal/technical definitions are rather fixed, I'm afraid, but, as previously stated, the TF community's (the "layman") is rather more flexible.
My point stands.
You're forgetting that "layman's terms" are actual language, while legal definitions are terms-of-art that are limited to specific contexts and conditions, and have no hierarchical or exclusive claim to meaning outside them.
In this case, for example, "third party" in business law and "third party" in normal English actually have quite different meanings. Neither is more correct than the other, though one is certainly more universal.
In short, layman's terms trump legalese outside of a courtoom. So no... your point does not stand. As usual, you overprivilege legalese, when it is only a tiny subset of language.
The weird thing about line you're talking about (Weijiang)... the Siege Optimus is smaller than the largest (Aoyi) version, but the Hound and Sideswipe molds are actually the same size as the Aoyi versions. In other words, the scaling doesn't stay consistent, so for the upscaled deluxes, they don't give you a new in-between size class, unfortunately.
And because they're Weijiang, it's unlikely we'll ever see any more from that set. :/
Yeah what happened to that?
Incorrect. You've again misunderstood my original points.
As stated before, "layman's term" is the common vernacular, which in this case, gives "4th party" and "3rd party" equal validity, due to there being no real "official" concensus within the TF COMMUNITY on a "correct" definition. In the broader population, the layman's term of "KO/bootleg" would most probably be applied to what the TF community would denote as "3P", "4P" or "KO".
The legal or technical terms are, of course, still valid terms too. They are "actual language" and are as relevant to the topic as related aspects of language, such as jargon, slang, journalese and other forms of register.
My points, again, stand.
One thing I've noticed is that with the rise of unofficial third party toys, the short form becomes "third party" without the unlicensed part, and I've noticed sometimes as new people come into the hobby, they don't know that there are official third party transformers products also, (as there is for just about every big brand pop culture thing) and whenever it's used it's often intended to mean unofficial product, when the old meaning (and general meaning on licensed products) is for a licensed product mady by somebody other than the IP holder.
For example everything from super 7 and NECA is "third party" but it's not bootleg, it's licensed third party. But it's become as a term synonymous with unlicensed products, mostly thanks to transformers fans and websites selling unofficial 3P TF.
I don't give a shit one way or another what something is called, it's just interesting to note how the language has become muddied, with people sometimes talking at cross purposes etc.
The 4th party term I saw as an inside joke for websites to lump all KO stuff on convenient clickable category on websites which is works fine, but is otherwise a silly silly term for TF.
It sounds like the after after after party.
Nope. Just saying the opposite of what I say doesn't actually refute anything. At the core of many of our disagreements is your seeming blindness to contexts. I also suspect you may not fully understand what "layman's terms" or "terms of art" actually mean.
Layman's terms are not specialized vernacular. It's simply common language, as used by the "layman"... ie: the exact opposite of jargon.
Moreover, legalese has exclusive context-reliant meanings that do not supersede layman's terms (outside of a technical context) and actually have a much more limited usage and application.
What you're missing here is that "third party" has a particular meaning in business terminology, and another different meaning in quotidian English. The attempted fandom usage of "4th party" runs counter to both of these.
In this context, it is neither a layman's term (the common meaning of "third party" does nor permit the existence of a "fourth party"), nor does it adhere to the legalistic meaning of "4th party" in business terms.
Instead, "4th party" is a novel attempt to create a new specialized term specific to the collecting fandom... which is neither organic nor widespread enough to even qualify as slang.
Maybe if its usage broadens considerably, it will eventually gain enough currency to carry the same meaning and weight as words like "bootleg" or "knock-off" -- slang terms that have entered into common English -- but I'm pretty sure that will never, ever happen. It hasn't even gained enough acceptance in our relatively tiny collector's community. The fact that a couple of online sellers have tried to use it as a category doesn't quite pass litmus.
Agreed. 4th party is more of an in-joke than anything. In that sense, it serves a purpose to describe something that the fandom specifically understands, but has no meaning outside that narrow context (even assuming the fandom completely adopts it).
You're also correct that the fandom's usage of "third party" is technically incorrect (or at least incomplete) but it actually has gained enough currency to become an accepted term in our subculture, so there's no putting that genie back into the bottle.
Incorrect. You've proved my point as my definitions and use of "layman's term" is spot-on.
My definitions and use of all language is correct. Your interpretations of my comments, however, were not.
My points stand.
Indeed, and this is one of the points I (and others) have already made previously. Thanks for sharing and agreeing.
Eh, there's no such thing as 4th Party... Carry on. LOL
I miss parties. Sigh....
Probably the best place to ask this: Any opinions one way or another on either AOYI LS-13 or the Wei Jiang M09 versions of BB Optimus?
You know I've not been in here hardly at all for months, and last time I was here The same people were bickering about 4th Party / 3rd Party. & I come back and it's like I'd never left.
I guess the KO releases must be a bit thin on the ground then - if there is nothing like that to discuss in preference then ?
Well, can I say that I dont care becuase I found the guy for less than 18$ shipped?
Was not gonna import a flix bee so he can be the stand in, for all I care....After all I found myself with a collection of Siege/Earthrise/Kingdom (and their KOs) figs literally overnight and they are not my main interest.
Took a break and seems I missed something...They KOed Cog?
Its the same everytime I take a break:
3rd part/ ko
Kos are dying in a couple months.
Good old tfw2005.
Supposedly a couple of years ago - but I missed it too.
It was being discussed a few pages back.
I was kinda curious as I like the slight mould variations.
Also if anyone see's the Wei Jiang Optimus, Sideswipe & Hound for sale anywhere please let me know.
The Optimus especially looks like a useful scale to me.
No, you premised your use of "layman's terms" on a lack of consensus relative to the Transformers collector community.
To make it clear:
"fourth party" has no consensus meaning in the fan community, so isn't specialized jargon in our subculture
"fourth party" has no meaning in conventional English slang
"fourth party" has no meaning at all in colloquial English (ie: there's no such thing, relative to "third party")
"fourth party" does have a meaning in business jargon, but which is totally different from how people try to use it to describe KO TFs
So... it's wrong in each context.
But you do your thing... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Since coincidence is clearly causation, we must assume this is all your fault.
Yeah, when things get quiet, it's only a matter of time before someone resurrects one of the old bugbears.
Also, RUMBLE IS RED!
did anyone else read this with a robot voice in mind? like the guy from grandma's boy that talks like a robot randomly
Separate names with a comma.