Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by blunghole, Oct 5, 2008.
How much, and where from?
Got mine here:
Transformers Pocket Toys PT-05War Giant Bruticus Legends scale in stock New ! | eBay
Seen them on TF-Direct as well, but they were a bit more. To be honest, bought it on a whim with eBay's 15% off everything a couple weeks back but, having it in hand, would have been satisfied at full price as well.
Yeah, TFS is closer to the "right" size, I think. But I don't like those figures much. The transformations are annoying as hell.
I think Voodoo is the same size as the official MP figures. They're pretty large, as I recall. Bigger than TFC.
I know this is the KO Thread but... Is that a "combiner" made up of GNAWs who failed to consume one another? That's hilariously awesome.
Do aussies do fireworks with us?
There is such a thing as 4th and 5th party. In terms of transformers toys though it is a redundant term unless you know the company lineage of the figure / ko, i.e. whether the KO is actually an outsourced product from the original maker, like what people were implying Maketoys do.
Please give one concrete example of a 4th party transformer product... and then elaborate how a 5th party example is even a thing.
but,but,but, 4th party sounds more civilized..
Think the Zenith Forge kit for Grimlock could be seen as a 4th but never even heard of a kit outsourced again for a 5th. But don't we call all of it still a 3rd party?
In this fandom, "4th party" refers to the (subjective) status of certain "high quality KO" figures, which may also include features or parts not originally part of the original design and/or the term is also used to avoid the term "KO", possibly to avoid perceived legal ramifications or negative feelings in potential customers.
I would say 4th party are just branded KOs，some do mould oversizing and modification so as to meet potential demand in the market（like WJ and BMB），but still its a KO，some with 3C certification which means they have certain control in the assembling and wont use recycled bad plastic or sth.
As per the quality，we do have some NB （No Brand）KO with quite good quality （which might be just from the contracted factories of the known 4th party brand）. Some of these factories （mainly do 1:1 KO of MPs）are really making some money so no need for them to be high-profile，making a brand or sth.
Legal issues are never problems for these factories as officials indeed need them to maintain the heat of transformers in the market，and they do help indeed
Yeah I never understood why Mech Planet/ Hot Soldiers is listed as 4th party. As far as I know they have never ko'd anything. Now the MFT on the other hand.... Maybe it's because they are so closely related
We're not talking IP.
Don't believe the hype from an online store... 4th party still isn't a thing... they could call it "glittering trolls" and it'd still get the same results.
In the end, in our fandom, "4th party" equates to a ko. (5th party is just laughable, as it would be a ko of a ko.)
Any accessories created to accompany a 3rd party figure, are themselves, 3rd party add-ons.
Any ko of a ko will always and forever be a ko, regardless of its simplifications or improvements over the original.
Any original work, or an add-on to an official piece will always be 3rd party.
Trust me, I can go on...
This person kinda gets it, but still used the term "4th party"... so close, so close.
There's a KO iron factory bruticus now!? How do I find one, and how much are they going for?
Honestly, my inquiry lead to sirtoys still being the best go-to for me... with my discount, it puts it around 60.
Pocket Toys PT Combaticons - 3rd Party - SirToys.com
Did you even read my post??
"In terms of transformers toys the term is pretty much redundant".
I work for a company that supplies "4th party" parts to a "3rd party" supplier in the heating industry.
I was merely saying that the term 4th (and 5th) party DOES exist as reading your post, it seemed you were saying 4th party products don't exist in general.
Chill out man, i'm not trying to make anyone look silly.
As for examples in the TF world (and I have no proof this actually happens, only the hyperbole I read on here) - For a 4th part product to exist it would have to be sub licensed for production by the 3rd party. The same for 4th parties subbing out to 5th and so on although it gets more convoluted the more you sub out products. Look it up. I'm not making it up lol.
Hopefully that answered your question in a logical fashion and was better than just posting the links to the definitions and proper industry examples in an attempt to make you look stupid
However, even the terms you have used, such as "3rd party" and "ko" are themselves subjective, and open to interpretation. The term "4th party", whether we agree with its use or not, exists and is used. That's why, I've written, at length, about the legal terminology/distinctions, at this thread (because the fandom's terminology is not consistent).
We don't even use the term 'third party' to its correct definition.
Third party products are normally licensed by the IP holder or at least approved.
That's why IPs are usually associated with 3rd parties. And 4th. And 5th.
The 2nd Party is supposed to be the consumer (usually) But I wonder if videogame terminology crept in here a bit
for example a 1st party would be say Nintendo - developing a game in house a 2nd party in this context would be a external developer (ideally one not owned by the publisher) who makes something for the publisher to sell under their own brand - (Donkey Kong Country on the SNES for example) sometimes this uses the primary publishers IP.
3rd party would then be un unrelaed or self published item for that format *sat a Capcom game on the snes or an Electonic Arts game on the Genesis/Mega Drive).
Now to apply that usage to Transformers like toys.
1st party would Be Hasbro and Takara
2nd Party would be licensed products like statues and non transforming figures keychains and Transformers branded toy cars
3rd Party (in this specific case) would be unlicensed products using the IP
4th Party would have to be something likely made for the 3rd party by a further additional company - lets say someone wanted to make an upgrade kit but wasn't set up to do it and someone said they design it for them - that might be 4th party.
Perhaps the people MFT work with might be some sort of 4th party too ?
But the common use "Trans-terminology" (I.e. bad English) use of 4th party would be a 3rd party accessory piece made for another 3rd party product but it is also used for a straight copy of a 3rd party item (though I don't personally use it that way some online stores do).
For example the MPP-10 KO is sometimes called a 4th Party item as it's a KO of an OSKO - the problem with that use though is that the KBB Underscale is also technically a KO of the MPP-10 Mold too.
I can't think of many uses where 3rd party couldn't simply be used as well as 4th party - an idea that I was thinking about the other day for example was what if someone made a Stunticon Blackout designed to work with one of the 3rd party Stunticon teams but it wasn't made by that company then "Maybe" I could see the logic of calling it a 4th party item.
Likewise the upgrade kits for the old Fansproject City Commander might be someone one could consider 4th party from a certain point of view I suppose.
We sure are dealing with a muddle of uses here though especially when 4th party as a term is used to describe a KO of a KO too.
I don't think it's a conversation that is going to disapear, I have no special objecton either way to the use of 4th Party - but I do prefer that people not call original designs KO's when they are not. (as sometimes happens with some of the MFT items that are original designs).
I suspect the likes of Show Z just likes to call Wei Jiang / Yes Model 4th Party as they sometimes are making a straight KO (with improvement or change of size) and sometimes just KO a 3rd party. But to be honest I really don't see much of a huge different in quality or my own personal perception - I tend to buy things based on size and what I want to use them for or simply as I think they look nice - and I don't think of this is better as it's Make Toys rather than Yes Model so much.
Perhaps one way to look at it is that Data Clerk is seen as a bit dodgier in terms of honor and such than Cupola - who is already a bit "Naughty" himself.
But frankly if Takara isn't interested in making an MP Chromedome and someone else is - I'm not going to complain... it's not like they have ever shown any interest in finishing the Dinobots either.
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