Don't remind me of Infestation. I had no idea what the hell was going on and suddenly Kup was gone. There were probably other books you should have read. But I haven't. I only read Transformers and no crossover ever will make me buy those other stories. I had such big hopes for MASK, but with all they changed... I really hope this fails. I HATE, HATE, HATE these crossovers and Hasbro mandated stories. If the stories wouldn't push aside the part of the book that made me interested in these in the first place, I wouldn't mind them. But they do.

But I'll save a lot of money this time. Not buying any of these event books. Should have skipped Combiner Wars and Titans Return as well. But gladly they renamed the books so my subscription is not valid for the new books anymore   I do not need to do anything   Thanks IDW.

 

My reaction to Infestation was:"wtf are
they doing now?"
But once in a while they have to try and get us to buy other titles i guess, no matter how ludicrous or disrespectfull the method.

All of this however still hasent answered Zmogs very good question i cant seem to find a good answer for: what would make them Gods ?
Do they have to be omnipotent?
Do they have to be the origin of all life ?
...?
I am not knowledgable enough in these matters to debate this in any sufficient way i'm affraid.
I guess what actually bothers me is that if they are declared gods in fiction i want them to be omnipotent.
And up till now that has never really been the case.

 

A god might be everything that appears to be omnipotent and above all other creation. A true God would actually be all that.

 

Yes, but if you have an adversary, then you cannot be omnipotent and above all other creation... hence by that definition, Primus and Unicron cannot be "true gods" even if their powers are otherwise far-reaching.

On the other hand, that might be an awkward description of a god, since historically the worship of deities (especially pantheons) has not assumed gods are all-powerful, so much as powerful beyond normal human measures. The dominance of monotheism is a relatively recent development.

Though of course, in the Guiding Hand myth, Primus is presented as a monotheistic-type deity who then purposefully split itself into 4 other gods. Does that make Primus in the Guiding Hand weaker than Primus undivided? What's "all-powerful and infinite" divided by five?

And of course, Mortilus is "dead" so we know that they can be killed...

Still lots of questions, obviously.  

zmog

 

Even Lovecraftian Elder Gods were in a more polytheistic manner powerful, but not omnipotent.

As a god of all creation the way Marvel G1 Primus was... I don't think he has any place in IDWverse. A "local" creator of this one species would be more sensible.

Still, in comic book universes gods tends to not be omnipotent and the line between them and "only" very powerful cosmic beings is a very murky one.

 

Really, 'omnipotent' is not a common part of definitions of gods.

Heck, even the Bible was written by Israeli tribespeople who were writing more from the angle of 'Our God is first and best,' (with Angels filling the role of 'lesser gods doing gruntwork' to boot, not all handled by the big one) rather than something like you have religious philosophy people argue about the true nature of omnipotence and how that applies to logical contradictions.

 

Well, like I said... "that might be an awkward description of a god, since historically the worship of deities (especially pantheons) has not assumed gods are all-powerful, so much as powerful beyond normal human measures."

But when we throw around terms like "true god," especially in fantasy/comic-book worlds, omnipotence would seem to be the only sensible criterion to separate the concept of 'true divinity' from "anything sufficiently bigger than you."  

As soon as you get into aliens and space entities, it all gets very relative. To ancient Israeli tribespeople, a Transformer would functionally be "a god."

zmog

 

...or, perhaps each of the five 'gods' are manifest as 5 planetoids that need to be reunited. If that is the case then we've had a few running hints and one quite recently. I would normally assume that minor Primus is Cybertron (given the historical context), but that may not be the case given the reveal through the portal. Temporal dynamics may have been at play though, so who knows? Like the whole Faith V Science setup in series one, I'm certain there will be both spiritual metaphor and tangible aspects to the Guiding Hand, possibly aided by distortion of legend due to info creep.

 

I still stand by the idea that Primus doesn't need to be a diety but just be the robot form of Cybertron.

Of course he'd never show up anyways....well not unless there is a major change to the status quo since Cybertron is somewhat liveable right now.

 

Primus was the first combiner ever. The Guiding Hand were his components. Mini-Primus formed the torso.

Solved!

 

 

Oh yea, something I forgot-

Sunder was a Mortilus worshipper, and that was just a story and a half ago. So, not-dropped.

 

From my post at the bottom of page 1:
"
c) I went back over S1 and S2 after reading this thread, and there's a definite difference in how much the religion vs. science tension overtone is played. It's a more consistent theme from Op+Meg Chaos Theory through to the end of S1 and then aside from a mention or two (like Mortilus being name-dropped) there's no real tension between the two anymore. So it looks to have at the very least been significantly de-emphasized in MTMTE. "

 

I necro'ed this thread for a historical reference perspective. I think depending on how far the direction re: Unicron was planned, it makes more sense now as to why Roberts heavily dialed back the religion vs. science element if he was showing up. Not a lot of room for ambiguity there. =)

 

Well, not necessarily. Just because Unicron is real doesn't mean Primus is.

 

Well, Cybertron itself sent out a worded message. And a sentient Cybertron is pretty much always going to be Primus

 

Could be an automatic message. You can keep your options open.

 

I'd also like to point out that even if Primus is real, that doesn't mean he is what all the myths say. Heck, Unicron may very well actually be the figure that inspired Mortilus. Both characters are harbingers of death and destruction who wage war on Primus, ultimately being defeated and banished/"destroyed" by the end of the story. That is, maybe there was a Guiding Hand, but it's origins are decidedly less mystical than the myths imply.

 

They will be somehow integrated into the 13 prime mythos when the time comes and all secrets of the IDW tf universe will be revealed. I've no concerns about it. It will either be revealed as a myth or as I said is a part of the 13 primes

 

LOL. That’s pretty much saying “it will rain tomorrow, unless it doesn’t.”

 

Yep pretty much lol.

If it suits all concerned they will return...if not.....no lol