The Guiding Hand: has this been dropped?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by justiceg, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. justiceg

    justiceg Well-Known Member

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    Different than the Knights of Cybertron...bear with me.

    [edit: I also noted this tweet from Roberts a couple of years back:
    James Roberts on Twitter
    which states that he was frantically writing #32 and #33, which were going to be a "deep mythology story" and that somehow they were related to the Titans, the Guiding Hand, and the Simanzi massacre. Obviously that never happened, because #32 and #33 ended up being the Slaughterhouse stuff, and in fact I don't believe any story like what Roberts described ever happened. Did it?]

    In the early issues of MTMTE (and part of Chaos Theory and Death of Optimus), there seemed to be some religious tension around both the existence of the Knights of Cybertron but even the existence of the Guiding Hand (Adaptus, Mortilus, etc.) Drift and Ratchet's continual interplay, for example, or tfs discussing the "legendary Necrobot".

    I'm reading tfwiki and I come across this:
    "As Mortilus stood against Primus, all of Cybertron became divided in a conflict that saw the planet shudder and its first moon being ripped asunder. The Death-bringer was ultimately destroyed in the struggle but the conflict left the remaining members of the Guiding Hand mortally wounded."

    Now, we know that around the conclusion of "Remain in Light", they *find* Luna 1. So it clearly hasn't been ripped asunder, which implies that this battle discussed above *never happened*. Now, I don't know about you, but if I'm a faith-driven guy and a central tenet/legend of my faith is concretely and objectively disproved...that would cause some ruffles. Worldview shattering! You'd figure that discovery would be incredibly disruptive to the TFs. Likewise, none of the other offshoot TF races that have been discovered seem to talk about or know about the Guiding Hand. You'd think that would also cause no small concern among the Cybertronians.

    So how come none of them seem to care?

    Since that event, and Dark Cybertron:

    * not only have no characters *even commented* about Luna 1 existing when it theoretically shouldn't, let alone react to it at all, they've even set up homes on it
    * no one talks about the Guiding Hand or any of its members (with the exception of Roadbuster, and in that case, much like the Necrobot, it was revealed quickly that it was never a mystical hing at all and that there was a much more grounded explanation)

    I'm open to the fact I might be missing runs of issues here; In the event I'm not, have Roberts or Barber ever talked about this direction shift or alluded to it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  2. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    It's a legend that has multiple versions to begin with. They'll generally assume it *way* predates any other species they meet, and/or happened far away from them.

    Luna 1 may have had big holes well before it went missing, maybe
     
  3. Sockie

    Sockie Veteran

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    Yeah, I remember Rewind mentioning how he hadn't heard Cyclonus's version of the Guiding Hand story before. For all we know, there are other versions that didn't mention Luna-1 at all.
     
  4. Girl Pants

    Girl Pants aka brickonator

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    The cynic in me wants to say that Hasbro "forced" them to adopt the Thirteen as the primary mythos to make IDW fall in line more with other fiction. I don't really believe that, but my cynical side is pretty strong, haha.

    But in reality, I think we've just not had it come up yet. MTMTE has gone months without following up on a concept before (like the first time we see the Necrobot). I would not expect it to disappear, unless Roberts really doesn't want to focus on it for some reason. But we're clearly set to have more stuff about the ancient times coming, given that Nightbeat and crew found what seems to be the "mold" Cybertron (or was it one of the moons?) was made of.
     
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  5. Noxex

    Noxex Well-Known Member

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    The guiding hand was brought up a few times in exrid by the mistress of flame. I always liked how the rid and mtme annuals gave slightly conflicting views of history. I think that the Luna 1 stuff just hasnt been explained yet. Cyclonus's story was never meant to be what actually happened.
     
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  6. motorthing

    motorthing One of these days.........

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    Mortilus was name-checked by Sunder (can't remember the blasted issue number) so I don't think the concept has been lost or dropped yet and some not to distant future pay off is probably coming (otherwise the Quest really will have been pointless) but I don't know that Cyclonus' version of The Creation was meant to be taken as fact/history - it was what He believes or has been taught as a Bot of faith, not necessarily what actually happened.
     
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  7. RNSrobot

    RNSrobot Keeper of the Waspinator Swarm. Blam.

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    Remember that the gear symbol on the back of Luna-1 matches the gear symbol Skids saw through the portal, AND matches the beings who have been conducting weird organic experiments across the galaxy (Scavengers both times).

    So they're clearly tied together, and it wouldn't surprise me if it works with Guiding Hand mythology someway.

    That said, I think it would be *wrong* to definitively answer some of the religious/mythological questions facing Cybertronians...
     
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  8. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    Agreed. The awesomeness of how IDW treats the Cybertronian religion is how it reflects religion in our own world. Whether or not someone believes it to be true is a matter of faith.
     
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  9. motorthing

    motorthing One of these days.........

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    The interesting thing about Cybertronian Religion and Creation Myth is that unlike us you are dealing with Beings like Galvatron and Alpha Trion that go all the way back to the Original Thirteen and practically Genesis as far as the Cybertronian race is concerned. In being so long lived they have radically different perspectives on Creation to us with our brief lifespans of decades. We don't have Adam on hand to back up our creation.

    Alpha Trion may actually be able to state as witnessed fact what the Primus/Quint Origin of the TFs really is. That's a huge difference.
     
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  10. Sockie

    Sockie Veteran

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    That's not really the case, though. The 13 weren't around at the Cybertronian equivalent Genesis in IDW--they rose up as the leaders of their respective tribes after the Knights of Cybertron's era, and the Guiding Hand is said to have been before even that. There's been no indication at all that Trion or any of the other 13 even existed in those earlier periods.
     
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  11. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    It is noteworthy how the Cybertronian ancient history has *three* great early eras. The Guiding Hand is the first and most in the realm of myth and gods, least likely to be literally true, the Primes are the last and best-known. The Knights the murkiest and least covered, the in between golden age.

    Their civilization arises mostly from the Prime era and they have the most information about it- if in the form of legends, these are at least legends of people they're pretty darn sure existed as living, mortal bots.
     
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  12. Lord Black Cat

    Lord Black Cat Combat Hero Shadow

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    Asunder has two meanings. One is "into pieces" which is the one I think you're reading into. My first assumption for the moon being ripped asunder was the second definition: "Apart; divided". I assumed that it was ripped asunder from Cybertron in the sense that it's out there floating somewhere.
     
  13. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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    The Guiding Hand are about to come front and centre in the Optimus Prime series:

    "As OPTIMUS PRIME pulls Earth into the larger universe, he's painted a target on Earth... and a new alien incursion begins when a corkscrew shaped craft drills into our world!"

    The Guiding Hand are the Quintessons.
     
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  14. Sockie

    Sockie Veteran

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    Are we stating theories like they're facts now?

    With how much foreshadowing there's been of the 13 being the next big threat in exRiD/OP, and next to nothing to do with the Guiding Hand, I'd think it's more likely the Quintessons are going to be introduced into IDW as Quintus Prime's colony...
     
  15. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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    I made no assertion of fact. I'm just re-raising the old theory in the light of the Optimus Prime preview details. You are right, however. The 13 seem to be the driving force behind the Prime Wars (funny that).
     
  16. PhaseSixer

    PhaseSixer Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's been dropped, I mean we are about to hit season 3 of mtmte, Roberts has to push them closer to finding the Knights of Cybertron, I think the guiding hand has more to do with them than anything else, so I just think that with season 3, he has to put more focus on the Knights, which in turn I think will lead to more being known about the guiding hand.
     
  17. Bumblemus Prime

    Bumblemus Prime Cracked in the head

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    It was definitely dropped from #32 and #33... I seem to recall that Roberts said he reordered a few things, and season 2 ended up having a lot more low-key character stories because of it (for instance, the Combiner Wars crossover may have prevented James from digging into Cybertron's past by dint of the need for Nova Prime).
     
  18. motorthing

    motorthing One of these days.........

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    Hence "practically." If the 13 weren't there, they are first Generation witnesses to who/what was. The rest of that timeline is open to fan speculation as it's not set publically yet.
     
  19. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    That would be awesome.
     
  20. justiceg

    justiceg Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, this thread has done more to confirm this for me than refute it...;) 

    a) I don't think the story Roberts originally mentioned has occurred, and he's hiding from my crack investigative journalism on Twitter ;) 

    b) The Guiding Hand == Quintessons is a fan theory that Verno evidently hoped would gain steam by stating it as reality =)

    c) I went back over S1 and S2 after reading this thread, and there's a definite difference in how much the religion vs. science tension overtone is played. It's a more consistent theme from Op+Meg Chaos Theory through to the end of S1 and then aside from a mention or two (like Mortilus being name-dropped) there's no real tension between the two anymore. So it looks to have at the very least been significantly de-emphasized in MTMTE.

    This isn't actually the first time MTMTE would have dropped a plot or theme - the "Overlord wants what's under Aequitas" never got resolved in that book either - but this one struck me as more of a central tenet. That being said maybe I was influenced more by the direction Roberts took Eugenesis (or maybe *he* was originally as well, and started moving away from it once Hasbro asked for the 13 Primes to be included).

    We'll see I guess!
     
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