The Good Film In ROTF - What Went Wrong and How It Can Be Fixed for TF3

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Master Fwiffo, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. TFfan08

    TFfan08 Vigilante

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    But Come on, who wants on to see BIG 50-YEARS OLD MAN'S ASS ON THE BIG IMAX SCREEN.
     
  2. OmegaVPrime

    OmegaVPrime Uhm, yea? So what?

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    ^^^^^EPIC QUOTE^^^^^


    Here is my opinion, and let the record show I loved the movie through and through. But...

    A small thing that many may have not noticed was the easy death of a 10,000 ton barreling transformer down a highway......First of all prime easily manages at the speed he was going, speeds over the overpass, transforms super fast, and lands right on demolishers face. A: Demolisher is an enormous bot. B: Demolisher could have easily ripped prime from his face and threw him several football fields away. C: Prime somehow is able to stop a beast that big in his tracks. D: Prime then traverses to headshot demolisher at point blank range after the fight ends.....prime you DICK! I'm sorry but as heroic as prime is supposed to be, he was very unforgiving and brutalic in some of the scenes.

    Sex scene between Sam and Alice....Okay now I get that this movie needs to "appeal" to all ages but that was by far the sappiest crap i've seen in a long time. As if having Megan Fox striping infront of a child filled audience wasn't enough, alices skirt is lifted up by her tail revealing a lot of leg. And I was very dissapointed in this scene for the sole fact that it was very tasteless.

    A never existing Jolt. When we all found out jolt was in the movie we were told several times that the chevy volt would not make out to be a bot of any kind. However he does in the film..... But how in the hell do you show him once in the film for a brief second when the NEST team have to take control of the autobots...but the coolest autobot next to sideswipe gets no talk time at all or face time....unless there was something in the imax that I didn't see, it was another flaw I hated.

    A lack of leadership. Okay now I've loved decepticons for god knows how long. But how does the story not get filled out to show starscream foresee control of the remaining decepticon forces instead of megatron just randomly beating the shit out of him consistently, and blameing him? Yes it is a nod to the typical Megatron/Starscream bitch spree, but why couldn't bay have filled the story out more in the beginning?

    Unethical treatment. So I guess because prime is dead, you can just kick the shit out of him and drop him where ever you please.....Okay, yes he is a heavy as robot with a large profile....but he has been saving the human race for over a year on earth and is given little due to his loyalty....Bad bad bad choice of scene that was...That too was also another tasteless scene that proves sometimes bay misses those finer details that make an action film a bit more like an action film, and less like an action drama scifi etc...

    An eye for an eye, a ball for a ball.....Okay so we all know the scene of devastator ripping the pyramid in half to uncover the sun harvester....when guess who comes around underneath and gets to see the sites above. Well It was quite funny I will give you that, but that scene actually siphened the last remaining awesomeness from the action that was taking place during the film, it was that sort of blatent attempt at comic relief that really screwed over the action sequences...

    Well that's my opinion..
     
  3. Kraken2009

    Kraken2009 Megatron's Right Hand

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    I agree 100 %. I especially love the "Warning, Opinions Ahead" part!
    We can only hope that these things are addressed.
     
  4. sideswipe89

    sideswipe89 Beachcomber

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    I agree, plotting against the fallen feels more like megatron. I really like this thread. I agree almost 100% with the TC.
     
  5. DecepticonsRule

    DecepticonsRule Triple-Changer

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    I agree as well.

    The original ending was better, with Megatron simply allowing The Fallen to be killed by Prime. This fits more with his character, rather than a tearful "No.." upon The Fallen's death.
     
  6. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I don't know. Isabel Lucas and Megan Fox are both physically hot, but they just lacked that something to make them sexy in the film. Instead of wow it was more eh because hot girls are a dime a dozen in movie land.

    But even 30 minutes of Lucas and Fox making out with each other still would not have made up for the horror of Simmons underwear. Heck even bleach can't clean your eyes of that image. Really glad the movie wasn't in 3-D.
     
  7. sideswipe89

    sideswipe89 Beachcomber

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    Yeah, the gals were hot but they lacked stage presence. I think they needed actors that could emote more and actually capture what a person would do/feel while caught in a war between two races of giant, transforming robots....
     
  8. Poho

    Poho That's MISTER Poho to you

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    yeah i am also hopping on this train. but i have a strange feeling that we will still see some major issues with 3, and not the same problems. i think the third on is just going to be straight up stupid.
     
  9. deltaprime

    deltaprime The Christian Transfan

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    But..but...Micheal Bay wouldn't DARE to do something too stupid!

    I'm Micheal Bay and I dare to--*gets shot by the railgun*



    Seriously, TF3 better be better. I loved ROTF, but the OP made some really good points. Less potty jokes plz.
     
  10. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    You sure? I can't even remember the actual angle and I saw the movie at least 10 times.
     
  11. TFfan08

    TFfan08 Vigilante

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    ROTF plot could be good, but they got much focus on the jokes and funny scenes.
     
  12. ricanhornet

    ricanhornet Well-Known Member

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    This argument is so flawed and unrealistic. Due to the scope of this movie, a huge budget is needed just to squeeze in the amount of robots that they have. In the cartoons, you are able to have continuous robot on robot violence/interaction because it doesn't cost that much to draw and produce an cartoon show. Same with a comic. But to have continuous robot on robot combat/interaction, the budget on this next movie would have to be $500 million plus. Unless, of course, you want to sacrifice the look and feel of the product. One of the most appealing things of these two movies have been the aesthetics and how the special effects look. So, if you say that the way to fix this movie is to lessen the humans' impact, and increase the robots, then you need to go to a bank and apply for a $500 million dollar loan.
     
  13. iceburn9

    iceburn9 Constructicon

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    Well said, sir. Couldn't agree more.
     
  14. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    I only want three things dealt with for TF3:

    1) The humor eased up a bit.

    2) The Transformers treated a little more like real characters.

    3) The story, even if it has to be simpler, be made clearer and without many plot holes.

    That's all I want. And of course I want awe-inspiring action, which we will surely get.
     
  15. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense. You're correct that there's a lot of really good stuff in there, and on the whole there are far more great moments and pieces than the first film had. I've watched the film a few more times. I've also watched the last forty minutes (from the point where Sam is scooping up the matrix dust on) separately, and you're right that it's very, very strong (anyone who thinks the final battle is random or difficult to follow needs to have their eyes and attention span checked).

    The 2nd act of the film is where the film is by far the weakest: from the point Leo says, "I think I know someone who can help: Robowarrior", up until they finally find the tomb of the Primes takes over 25 minutes; it's just too complex of a process to get them from the glyphs on Sam's arm to the Matrix. They have to locate and reintroduce Simmons, who can't help them at all so they ask Wheelie, who points them toward yet another character (Jetfire) that needs locating and introducing. But all Jetfire does is point them in the right direction, before leaving them to wander the desert alone for another nine minutes.

    But even if that whole act could have been streamlined, there's just too much useless fat elsewhere. The Kitchen bots didn't need to be a three minute ordeal. They didn't need the Pretender and all of the drama it caused in Sam/Mikeala's relationship. Judy didn't need to go on a pot brownie tirade, and even if they'd kept that it could have ended before she started tackling college boys. The classroom "mental breakdown" scene could have been half as long if it was just some random professor instead of a vehicle for Rainn Wilson to be a weirdo. Leo's only purpose in the entire film was to lead Sam back to Simmons; the rest of the time he was just time-consuming noise. They should have left Leo at the Deli after Simmons was back in the picture — doing that alone would probably have cut five minutes out of the remainder of the film.
     
  16. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I think if you shortened down the overall length of the film into something closer to what most action films have then it would be short enough to feel like there was lots of robot time even if it can't be robots every frame of the film.

    Aesthetic, well that is going to have to be a point of contention since I really don't like the aesthetic of these robots at all and I have to wonder what they could have done with something more streamlined with less busy bits. I'm just not a fan of busy for the sake of busy so it just feels like they are throwing away part of the budget on the too many parts look.
     
  17. The Madness

    The Madness News Credits: -13

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    Good OP Post!
    I couldn't help but feel, when watching, that the movie would have benefited from being split into two separate films. Clearly the production team wanted a self contained story, but the story was so ambitious that details were ultimately neglected on film, expositions were forced and unnatural, and pacing seemed haphazard.

    I'm sure Bay as an artist can acknowledge the faults of the film, as I am sure he would be his own worse critic regardless of how he portrays himself. However, a film is ultimately a product, designed to make money for investors. Getting the film out on time, and having big draw-card action sequences to guarantee interest will always be a higher priority, along with coming in under budget.

    Regardless of the persona Bay seems to push in the media, with the help of Orci and Kurtzman (sic), he did try to address many concerns people had from the first film, so he has shown he listens.
    The best thing that can be done to "fix" TF3 has already been done by professional critics on review of ROTF. While the Producers may be pleased by the films substantial financial reward, I'm sure they're not naive enough to completely disregard the value of good publicity in their next investment.
     
  18. Ruthie

    Ruthie Well-Known Member

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    I noticed five "what went wrong" elements to ROTF that resulted in the movie not only being too crowded, but spread it too thin.

    1. During the Diego Garcia hangar scene (great scene BTW) when General Marshower asked what was meant by "the Fallen,” Prime answered: “Unknown.” If Prime had responded by explaining the Fallen as a Cybertronian legend that the Decepticons worshipped as the founder of their movement, the movie would have taken a more coherent and compact direction, without the need of Wheelie’s shoe-horned role to serve as a link between Sam and Jetfire and then Jetfire’s tedious expository. It would have also provided Reedman’s theft of the Allspark fragment and the cemetery scene with more gravitas. And it would have allowed the Autobots to be engaged in the revealing of the history of their own people instead of being bystanders.

    2. The Fallen should have been portrayed as an historical character whose legend Megatron revered and sought to emulate rather than a live character calling the shots. Doing so would have given Megatron depth as he personified the Fallen. It would have also given the audience a better understanding of what fuels the Decepticons’ fanatical separatism. By making the Fallen an actual character, the writers set the audience up for the inevitably underwhelming revelation of the Fallen’s power and his near vacant motivation for “revenge,” both of which had the odd effect of disconnecting the bad guy from the movement he founded.

    3. Skids and Mudflap should have been excluded. They served absolutely no purpose. The resources used to characterize them should have been allocated to engaging Ratchet and Ironhide and showing more of Sideswipe and the Arcees.

    4. The matrix should have been the main plot point or nixed altogether, not used as a tertiary plot device. Having it as one of many critical elements, after the all spark fragments and Sam’s visions, made the movie guilty of having “too many notes”.

    5. That whole middle section with Simmons and Sam gallivanting around should have been reduced to Simmons in the basement of the meat shop explaining that based on his research what the Decepticons wanted was located in Egypt. And then Sam deciding to turn himself in, Simmons calling Lennox, Lennox getting Marshower to agree to let them take Sam to Egypt, the President agreeing as long as the wonk went with them and then the scene where they summarily dispatched of the wonk by parachute. No Wheelie, no Jetfire, no humping, no spitting, no rolleyes.

    For TF3 the threat should branch beyond Sam. He should continue to be an ambassador of sorts, but he should no longer be the one in the crosshairs. The story should pick up on the theme of the Decepticons wanting to preserve and grow their dying race at human expense, while the Autobots are torn between wanting to protect the humans and watching their own race slowly die off. We should see the Autobots and their human NEST counterparts doing things like sharing stories or playing games so when the throw downs occur there will be an emotional connection that the audience can reference. And instead of adding new Autobots, let’s get to know the ones we have better (except for Skids and Mudflap, those two should blend in with the background). The Decepticons should be more than fodder. We should see a group bound by a desire for the survival of their people and the advancement of their beliefs. All of this can be interspersed with comedy that is smart and clever instead of crude and course. (Ratchet is a gold mine of high-brow humor just waiting to be tapped).
     
  19. Primesfist

    Primesfist Well-Known Member

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    Ruthie I agree.
     
  20. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I agree that some streamlining and rolling things together would have really helped the film out. Trimming the film down to a shorter running time really would have helped.

    Ah and so many missed opportunities. Instead of the long drawn out pretender thing we could have just had Dispenser as the Mountain Dew machine in the dorm room since the movies don't follow the comic books. Jetfire could have been the C130 and an old bot if they had gone with something like Ruthie said.

    Fingers crossed our new writer understands a longer film is not always a better film so that the third film can be a leaner meaner more focused movie.