Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Superquad7, Dec 1, 2011.
if i remember well, it was me, but maybe Sam had the same idea before
Here's why I think that we will get a Sideswipe 2.0. This certainly isn't a new concept, people have been talking about this since for a long time. It seems to pick up a little more steam every time there is an advancement in the line like ankle tilt, waist swivel, ab crunch, butterfly shoulders, transition to cartoon accuracy, and especially when Sunstreaker came out. All of these things have not only made me *want* one, but there's also a lot of reasons where it seems like an inevitability.
First off, let me be clear. MP-12 is awesome, a true Masterpiece of what the line was trying to produce at the time. Hasui had said that he was combining elements of different iterations of the character to arrive at the perfect amalgamation and representation. True to that form, MP-12 is essentially a modern engineering of the original toy with lots of influences from the cartoon model. I've also always thought that the way the rear lights wrap around the ankles was a(n?) homage to the way the Bayverse transformers wrapped small bits of the alt mode around, but that could just be my interpretation. Either way, I believe that, at the time, MP-12 achieved exactly what it was trying to and is a perfect Masterpiece representation of Sideswipe. The same goes for Red Alert. At the time in the line, we would never get separate molds for Sideswipe and Red Alert, and I'd argue that we shouldn't have. Yes, the character models are different in quite a few ways, but when you look at the whole character representation of Red Alert I believe it is the best version of the overall character. I miss the arm doors a little, but I look at it this way: Say I knew a guy in college who always had long hair. I see him a few years later and he's all clean cut. I'll say, "I'll always remember you with long hair" and he'll say back, "yeah, but now I'm the best version of me." I think of it the same way as I like Smokescreen to have the same proportions as Prowl and Bluestreak. It's just better that way as opposed to making him dumpy like the animation. (All subjective!) What's objective, however, is the price point. I forget the line exactly but in an interview Hasui had said he could have made a 10,000 yen ($93) Sideswipe but chose a 5,800 yen ($54) Sideswipe to ensure he would sell well. So again, for the time and the price point, MP-12 is a true Masterpiece. (I would *love* to know what Hasui would have done at the higher price point)
But, now the Masterpiece line has evolved, and poor Sideswipe has not. He held on for a long time on the shelf besides Prowl, Wheeljack, Tracks, Ironhide, and even Inferno. He looked ok but not great next to Sunstreaker, but very dated next to Hound. Which is funny, because Sideswipe will still be in one piece in 10 years while Hound will be a pile of green dust. So that's my first piece of evidence. The line has simply evolved to the point of hyper cartoon accuracy that MP-12 cannot continue to sustain, similar to the paths of Bumblebee and Prime. My shelf is calling for a skinny chested, big headed (a propos to the character!), expression swapping, less bulky legged Sideswipe.
The second piece of evidence is advancement in engineering. Everything I mentioned above would be included. But there's a more interesting thing concerning the advancements in engineering in the past 8 years. You can't just redo either Sideswipe or Red Alert, you have to do both. Now if you are going after cartoon accuracy, you have 2 options. The less likely, I think, would be two completely new molds. The other, which I would be much more interested in, would be a parts sharing mold with different transformation options (similar to Badcube). We've seen how successful this can be when it is planned in advance in the case of Inferno and Grapple. This would be a step up from that but I think that the engineering and price point are in the right spot to make something like that happen. It also opens up a new neat possibilities like being able to have not only an updated cartoon Sideswipe but also an update toy Sideswipe. Now that the + versions are getting new parts and transformations, this would be a nice next step in that direction. On that note, I'm still wondering if Detritus would have an option for keeping his leg wheels exposed like his box art.
Third, Sideswipe sells. He might not be in the top 5 or top 10 or even top 20 favorite characters, but the sum of all his parts leads to him being constantly revisited. He's an original Ark crew, he's cool (Jet Judo!), he's bonded to Sunstreaker which adds play value as well as a highly likely second purchase, and his alt mode is iconic. There were very specific reasons that Hasui chose Sideswipe to begin a whole new phase of the Masterpiece line. In fact, let's go back to his alt mode for a minute and see how that has had an influence these last 8 years.
2012 - Sideswipe and Red Alert
2013 - Tigertrack
2014 - G2 Sideswipe
2015 - Clampdown
2016 - Red Alert +
2017 - Sideswipe + and Sunstreaker
2018 - Cordon
2020 - Spinout
That's 10 Countaches in 8 years! It's by far, far, far, the most consistent things we've had in the line!
Fourth, his repaints sell. Maybe not great sales, but they exist. I personally think this would be marketable if it was just a new Sideswipe and Red Alert. The fact that you have built in repaint options for Tigertrack, Clampdown, Deep Cover, G2 Swipe, G2 (unused) Swipe, and toy versions is just icing on the cake. Yeah, I get it, it would be a freak of nature if we got a 2nd Masterpiece Clampdown before the dozens (hundreds?) of more deserving bots, but it's a reality of profit vs investment that Huffer or Blurr or Octane simply don't have.
Building off of that point is the next that I hate to bring up but Takara is a business. It is not their job to give us what we *want*, it is their job to sell us what will make them the most profit. A lot of factors will go into this: character popularity, licensing issues, repaint options, complexity, can it beat a third party offering (maybe, I honestly don't know about this), interaction with what we already have, etc etc etc etc. *Market Research* will drive this. And when that is done by people who are (hopefully) much smarter than us, who would make a better investment to profit ratio than Sideswipe? A new Starscream almost definitely, maybe Jazz depending on licensing cost, probably Galvatron, Blaster and the tapes, the Dinobots or Constructicons? There's plenty more possibilities of course, and everyone's opinions would influence that list to a certain degree. But now let's look at who wouldn't be a better investment that Sideswipe 2.0: Gears? Bombshell? Wreck-Gar? If you had to pick one between Sideswipe 2.0 and Masterpiece Skids who would it be? I *want* both, to be honest. But if I HAD to pick, I think I would go for Sideswipe. Now I don't mean for this to imply Takara is evil. But they are a business, and businesses have to find the right balance between making profit and keeping consumers happy. I could go on with this one but don't want to beat a dead horse around too much.
Sixth, Deep Cover. I find it really neat just how many people in this thread are waiting for him. There is a part of me that says if you wait for Sideswipe 2.0 to come out first, then you get SS, RA, and DC out of the mold and don't try and redo CD and TT. Therefore, it kinda forces you to buy the new mold again, while not really tightening the noose and trying to get people to double dip on Tigertrack and Clampdown. It's a neat idea but ultimately I think more people would see it as a deliberate nasty move because they never got to complete their Countach version one collection. Do the right thing and finish off this mold and then send it into the sunset. What's interesting is that there is somewhat of a precedence of issuing a mold one last time before the next version. With Spinout being the last Sunstreaker Countach in 2020 and Deep Cover being the last Sideswipe Countach in 2021, that sets us up very nicely for a Sideswipe 2.0 in 2022 to continue the only pattern we've ever seen in this line!
And lastly, let's talk about how awesome the Sunstreaker toy is. In all of our speculation about how they could pull this toy off I don't remember if we ever considered having a real world accurate Countach with a transformable rear half to form a cartoon/toy accurate alt mode. I would imagine that a lot of consideration on Takara's part went into this toy probably for years trying to pull it off. A lot of thought. A lot of preparation. A lot of ideas. A lot of wondering if it could be done to someone else. You can't tell me that during all that time that the designers never considered taking up the challenge of using a similar strategy of a transformable back section to convert from a cartoon accurate Lamborghini roof to a cartoon accurate and never before released (in the correct size), finally, Sideswipe's rocket pack.
It's funny I can deal with 12+ next to Sunstreaker for now, but the photo of him next to Spin-out reminds me how out of place he is now.
Yeah like I said, Sideswipe didn't look all that bad next to Sunstreaker. It was Hound who broke it for me. Even Wheeljack, who I thought was untouchable and the least likely to ever need a redo, looked *just* a bit dated next to Hound.
It was probably you first
If I didn't already believe everything you said, I would be a believer now
Something to add to this is that it seems like Takara has a great relationship and track record with Lamborghini so a v2 of Sideswipe and Red Alert helps continue to keep that relationship fresh. Personally, I'd love for a v2 to come along and for Deep Cover to be a repaint of that mold as a sense of variety.
Also, didn't the last or second to last interview with TT reveal we could expect more v2s since the others have done well enough or am I mistaking that with someone else's take on said interview(s)?
They really wouldn’t even need to invent too much for a Sideswipe V2. They can just copy the 3rd party idea of the hood-chest sliding inward to become smaller, thin up the legs some, make his shoulder cannon smaller, and give him modern a modern masterpiece version of his hands and head.
What I would throw my wallet at, though, is a Magnus V2. Thin him up all around, no butt flap, make him a little shorter... Takara can just take my $400.
:\ i don't think Magnus is popular enough to have an Optimus Prime pricepoint.
Some insider here spoke about that Devastator is on the table, is it?
How do you think the single members will be ingegnerized? Sturdy and cheaper as Ironhide, or more articulated (and pricey) as Sunstreaker?
Not sure I see them doing Devastator in the near future, but if they did I'd expect simple individual members. I reckon Raiden will tell us more, but my guess is that the focus of the set will be combined mode rather than individual figures.
Not combining constructicons, you mean?
Edit: Ok, i can't read anymore. Yes, i also think that the individual members will be sturdier but with simple engineering (Early carbot engineering) , also to help keeping the price down.
You got it on the edit
Yeah, I just can't see them doing hyper articulation on bots that are likely to be marketed for Devastator rather than 6 robots as a team with related alt modes and colour scheme. They obviously fulfill both, and that's why I think it's the marketing strategy that will give us the answers, and why Raiden is the test.
Two reasons why Raiden is the test: first, he's combiner number one in MP, so he is a litmus test for what to expect.
Second, this is known as the Raiden project as far as I know. Not Trainbots project, but Raiden. That to me says a focus is on combined mode. The silhouette image is Raiden too, not six Trainbots etc. I accept that this is plausibly explained by it being more recognisable and such, but I think it's a relevant aspect nonetheless.
I don't see them foregoing articulation unless it's needed for structural purposes. I would still expect the Constructicons to have butterfly shoulders and ab crunches, deep knee and elbow bends, and the ability to kneel (as I expect for all future MPs). If an ab crunch ends up compromising the solidity they'd probably just make it lockable in place (like MP-29's waist).
We already had UW Constructicons with basic MP-12 levels of articulation. And their basic articulation was a huge turn off for me. Why retread old ground?
I couldn’t agree more Sam. How do you feel about scale? Do you want them seeker height, carbot height or something in between?
Maybe Ironhide height? At least Arcee/Hot Rod height anyway. If I remember right from Master Builders they kinda stand around the same height as Grapple, so that'd do nicely.
That would give enough workable toy to make a comber part and create heft when building Devastator too. Weren't they depicted as slightly shorter than the seekers?
I think they're Seeker height on the scale chart, iirc.
I'll cosign all of that, Constructicons at carbot height would be far too short. I can't have a dump truck smaller than a Vanette.
Decepticons are generally the same height, aren't they? Triple-changers, Combiner teams, Seekers, Shockwave, all around the same level.
Then Reflector is carbot height and the Insecticons are minibot height.
I'd forgive whatever height they wanted set for the Stunticons, to make their cars roughly in scale with the other Arkbots. Though knowing Takara they could pull off whatever scale magic they wanted.
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