The G1-Focused Masterpiece Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Superquad7, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. Dean ML

    Dean ML Well-Known Member

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    Megatron, Galvatron, Shockwave, and Thundercracker are all overdue and would all be more than welcome. I just hope one of these guys is coming in December. Ironhide in November, a big Decepticon in December - that's my hope. Wonder if TT will be throwing us another curveball anytime soon? No one saw Optimus Primal coming as far as I know.

    I think a lot of assumptions are made when we start talking about designers. What's clear to me, though, is that these things are a team effort. Hasui mentioned this quite often in interviews. We have so little info as to what goes on behind the scenes, how these things are made, and who's responsible for what. I just don't see a signature "style" in any of these figures that can be attributed to Hasui, Kobayashi, or Yuki. Compare Yuki's MP Megatron to his Star Saber. Compare Kobayashi's Grimlock to his Rodimus to his Ultra Magnus. Compare Hasui's Lambor to his Prowl. Looking through the MP Guidebook, Hasui and Kobayashi's designs and sketches don't appear to be too far off from each other in approach, style, skill, attention to detail, engineering prowess, G1 accuracy - you name it. For a while there I thought the only area Hasui seemed to trump Kobayashi was stability - Hasui's figures tab together remarkably well. But then Kobayashi's Ultra Magnus is as stable as any figure, which makes me think any lack of stability prior to MP-10 was due to qc issues or a reshuffling of priorities of how to make these figures. It doesn't even appear that Hasui and Kobayashi are responsible for the face sculpts - they just provide detailed drawings for the sculptors to work from.

    I think the biggest factor that influences how these figures turn out is the G1 character designs themselves. Hasui spoke to this, saying that it's much easier to design an MP who's G1 character model closely resembled the G1 toy. He was specifically talking about Prowl, whose G1 transform he mentioned as being near perfect already. He also talked about how difficult it was designing Wheeljack, whose G1 character model is very different from the G1 toy. Wheeljack was so difficult that Hasui said he nearly gave up! None of us know what Hasui's work on Ultra Magnus looked like except that the assumption is it was armor wrapped around MP-10. I cannot imagine an armored up MP-10 that would be any sleeker, smaller, or less fiddly than the all-in-one we got that was designed by Kobayashi. I love Hasui as much as anyone - he turned this line into what many of us have dreamed about for thirty years and his figures are AWESOME. But I also think it's fair to say none of the characters he tackled presented design challenges as difficult as Hot Rod and Megatron. To my mind, the most challenging design he tackled was Ultra Magnus and he moved on from the project during it's development for one reason or another.

    I've always thought that whoever had to design a new Megatron, Galvatron, and Ironhide would have his work cut out for him. Very difficult design challenges due to their G1 character models having very little to do with their G1 toy. Also, very popular characters whose fans are going to have high expectations, many of whom are going to complain about them not turning out as "perfectly" as a figure like Prowl or Soundwave. Drawing a vanette morph into a robot that's a sleek, kibble free, well proportioned stack of blocks is one thing - making it a reality by turning it into a mass produced 7" figure with a budget and schedule set by higher ups is another.

    I'd love to hear Liampope's perspective on the matter.
     
  2. Booster Gold

    Booster Gold Superhero?

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    Indeed I don't think anyone saw Primal coming, many thought there wasn't a cat in hells chance of BW MP's...I am so glad they were wrong :) 

    I'd be very happy to see Megatron, Galvatron or Shockwave in December, Thundercracker on the other hand would be an underwhelming way to end the year in my opinion. The Ironhide and Primal announcements have renewed my excitement about the line, I hope they keep that momentum going.

    I personally can't wait to see proper photos of Primal in both beast and robot mode and am hoping for more BW announcements in the future, along with some more high profile G1 characters. Another sub A lister or repaint would be less impressive.
     
  3. danny boy

    danny boy Banned

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    You'd want to do it quickly though. Once Shockwave is announced the demand for QW is going to drop along with the value.
     
  4. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    Wow what happened to all the smilies in the forum update?? I need one with clapping, or at least a thumbs up! So much quotable truth to agree with there! The facts as we know them without bias, prejudice or hyperbole.

    I too believe you can't really see designer cues in the figures. As DeanML says - just compare some of the characters done by the same guy. The end result is soooo much more to do with the G1 material and engineering requirements than any one designers own style.

    People bashed Kobayashi for MP-3 (the kibble) and 5... until we found out it wasn't him. People were gushing with praise for Hasui for 'fixing' the seeker mold with MP-11... then we found out it was Kobayashi. People were also gushing with praise for Hasui at the first UM prototype reveal... then we found out it was Kobayashi, etc etc.

    Truth is nobody can tell until we are told, then a load of people say yeah I could see that all along! :)  Some say Tracks is a clear departure from the other cars with his slender style which is apparently a Kobayashi cue (er, are we forgetting UM?). I say it's becasue he's made of a C3 Vette. He could never turn out wide like the Lambos or Lancias. To me Tracks looks perfectly aligned with the other carbots. We think it's Kobayashi, but could easily have been knocked out by Hasui while he was on a roll with other cars. I wouldn't be surprised either way, and we wont know for sure till it is revealed.

    One thing I would add to Dean's post is another thing to remember is the bulk of Hasui's figures came after the bulk of Kobayashi's. So things like stability and tabbing together, imho, are likely not Hasui/Kobayashi things, but simply the team as a whole improving over time. Later figures have better stability, poseability and tabbing. Hence Kobayashi's UM is perfectly solid and stable, and I'm absolutely sure Tracks and Ironhide will be too.

    Ironhide looks like a really difficult job to get that bot mode toon accuracy (e.g. the crotch and lower legs, where the 3P efforts just didnt go that mile), and the right scale for both modes. A bigger challenge than the cars for sure. I'm confident it will turn out amazing.

    And all this Shockwave and other Cons news?!! Wow - thread just got really interesting!! :) 
     
  5. Dean ML

    Dean ML Well-Known Member

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    Agreed about TC, but I'd rather have him than nothing between Ironhide and the end of the year. I'll surprised if he's released any differently that Skywarp was last year.

    I don't care about Beast Wars at all, but even I'm looking forward to seeing more of Optimus Primal! I won't be getting him, he just doesn't fit my collection, but I'll definitely be admiring him from afar.
     
  6. Dean ML

    Dean ML Well-Known Member

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    Should be stickied ;)  And about figures improving over time... that's what I was trying to get at, though I worded it poorly, about TT prioritizing stability with the progression of the line. You said it better than I could!

    One thought about Tracks... makes sense that he was designed with a svelte bot mode in mind so that he could double up as the fembot Roadrage.

    What we need as much as another MP reveal around here are more TT MP interviews! Any way TFW2005 could arrange that, being one of the biggest fan sites around?
     
  7. danny boy

    danny boy Banned

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    Just thinking ahead, if rumors are true Takara really does have a full lineup ahead;

    July: G2 Bumblebee
    August: Blue Bluestreak
    September: Tracks
    October: Roadrage
    November: Ironhide
    December: Shockwave
    January: Thundercracker
    February: Ratchet

    Plus possible re-paints;
    Bumblebee (Glyph),
    Diaclone Ultra Magnus,
    Diaclone vans,
    Grey Shockwave,
    Diaclone Black Tracks.
     
  8. Dean ML

    Dean ML Well-Known Member

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    More thoughts on designers (sorry, guys!)... I think one of the (many) reasons we all love Hasui so much are because of the interviews he frequently gave and his many tweets. That stuff sure endeared him to us. Same with Yuki with regards to Star Saber. Kobayashi, on the other hand, has no social media presence as far as I'm aware and gives fewer interviews for one reason or another. I do not see that as any indication he is less passionate about TFs, G1, or MPs. Quite the opposite, from the interviews I've read with him. Maybe he's introverted, really damn busy, or TT hasn't facilitated it. That said, we could sure use some tweets and interviews!
     
  9. danny boy

    danny boy Banned

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    We're going round in circles again. I'm one of the biggest Hasui fans here but all this talk comparing him and Kobayashi is boring. Kobayashi knocked Ultra Magnus out of the park.
     
  10. Sinestro00

    Sinestro00 When the Curtain Falls

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    Most likely correct. It will be a buyers market, and if you like QW better than the official, you'll most likely be able to get him at a pretty good price. Sure, there will be people who want to have both (official and 3P), but some won't. Of course, this is all assuming the most recent speculation comes to fruition.

    This is why I sold off my IGear van bros two years ago.
     
  11. LeakinLubricant

    LeakinLubricant Well-Known Member

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    I got him for a good price, I'd be happy the get enough to pay for the Takara version, I don't think that would be unreasonable.
     
  12. Dean ML

    Dean ML Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but with the reveal of a new MP the Kobayashi bashing rears its head again. It's pretty unfair and uncalled for, especially since we don't even know who designed Ironhide.
     
  13. danny boy

    danny boy Banned

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    Yeah the Kobayashi bashing has come up again Dean and it really is frustrating. It is unfair and uncalled for. Anyway I've said my peace, if it continues I'm staying out. Tracks and Ironhide both look fantastic.
     
  14. Sinestro00

    Sinestro00 When the Curtain Falls

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    I agree Dean. And we also need to remember that its been discussed and perhaps even confirmed that there is not just one MP designer. There are several and they work as a team on each figure, with the final version receiving input from everyone. The example I point to is Hasui's (I think) interview discussion on Magnus being all-in-one or cab with armor and the design process behind it.
     
  15. RustyBarnacles

    RustyBarnacles Well-Known Member

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    I really don't get the Kobayashi bashing. He did do the first 9 MPs other than MP-05 which was done by Yuki.

    With the exception of MP-09 (due to build quality) the first MPs were very well received.

    I think MP-22 is amazing, and the only problem I have with MP-27 is the hip kibble.
     
  16. Dean ML

    Dean ML Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. And don't worry - I didn't take offense to your post.

    Yeah - some others that come to mind are Hasui talking about his MP team debating whether Bumblebee's alt should be chibi or realistic as well as his size and Hasui talking about his team debating Optimus' head design and what to do with his leg wheels. Great reading that these guys argue about the minutia just like we do :)  I'm also sure that however they turn out, the design team spent a lot of time talking about Ironhide's head sculpt and hip kibble.
     
  17. RMStunticon

    RMStunticon Dan Kuroto Fan

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    Forget about Shockwave, where's mah Victory Leo?:tongue: 
     
  18. danny boy

    danny boy Banned

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    True. I don't think it'll drop that much really. It goes for what? $500-$600 now? It'll probably drop down slightly. It will be interesting to see what happens to the price though. I don't think Takara have released a MP that's already been done by a 3P.

    Edit: Forgot about Citizen Stack and Bii.
     
  19. Booster Gold

    Booster Gold Superhero?

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    Indeed, surely he has to be on the agenda for 2016?
     
  20. kibble

    kibble Seeker style, yo!

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    A KO has been announced. People could be figuring they'll unload their official version for $300-400 then just buy the KO and/or wait for a regular priced 4th run or TT release.

    If I recall, this was around whether there was licensing issues with Shockwave? If so, I agree, I don't think it's coincidence there hasen't been a gun mode Shockwave, but I think it's just because Hasbro doesn't want to release one. Not because they can't, they just don't want to. It's likely they can't release a G1 reissue...whether due to licensing or the mold is ruined, both are likely reasons. But Classics...they haven't released a proper Soundwave either so what's that tell you? And MP, they just haven't gotten around to Shockwave yet...is pretty much what I'm thinking these days.