The future of live-action Transformers

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by GirlBot, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. GirlBot

    GirlBot Mini-Cassette

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    In past two weeks there was already a lot of talk on Bayformers future, but I would like to give the subject a little more attention and broaden the scope to TCU or any potential future Transformers live-action movies.

    TLK did not do well with the audience compared to previous installments. Some people point blame to poor critical reception and low RT score. Some that the poor critical reception finally caught up to the franchise or that it's the franchise fatigue. TLK looks like an outlier in the light of these hypothesis, altthough AOE scores might have hinted at some semblance of franchise fatigue. Since poor critical reception was the constant in past installments and it did not put the dent in box office numbers I would look for the reason in other places. Let's give the audience a closer look. TLK did not have a good word of mouth which resulted in B+ at Cinemascore. It hints that the audience was somewhat disappointed with what they got. The other important matter to note is that TLK did not have a strong social media buzz prior to release. Sites that track those numbers (like Pro Box Office) a month before premiere predicted that the opening run would be around $75M. Before the reviews set in and before the audience word got out, the demand from the market was already low despite the December teaser breaking viewership records. So the question is why did the people decide that they don't need another TF movie?

    Let's focus on the audience who saw the movie first. Bay movies are known for car chases, robot action, military action, big destruction and hot chicks. In general audience eyes they are summer action movies you watch for the action. So how did it fare in these departments compared to previous installments?

    1) Content. TLK did not have a standout car chase comparative to sequences in DOTM, TF1 or even AOE. Despite increased robot presence in the movie, there was no memorable robot action bar a little out of focus Bumblebee and Optimus fight. AOE had Optimus vs Grimlock and vs Lockdown, plus Dinobot charge. ROTF had the forest battle and so on. Both ROTF and DOTM had prominent military presence, it was smaller in TF1 and almost nonexistent in AOE. TLK only supported brief military action. In TF1, DOTM and AOE we had wide city destruction caused by robot fighting, the Driller or giant magnets. TLK had none of those (altthough the finale still looked visually stunning). When it comes to hot chicks TLK was much toned down in that department. While wearing a form-fitting dress in her introduction, later in the movie Viviane exchanged her clothes for baggy overalls. To sum up: It looks like TLK did not deliver the standard Bay fare and there goes the segment of the audience interested in that.

    2) Demographic. Early this year we had a promotional campaign putting Izzy as the face of the movie, accompanied by a bunch of other kids. Did it mean that Cade would be delegated to a supporting mentor role? That move resulted in some segment of audience declaring not to see the movie that did not feature adult male lead. There were also some segments of the audience that showed interest. However, the studio did not follow on this promo, and next materials were focused on military, Cade and Viviane. It resulted in a mixed target audience and confusion. Is TLK aiming for family crowd or do they still aim for their regular, older audience? Despite toning down the violence, TLK noted an increased number of profanities, further discouraging the family crowd. Setting up Viviane as the most important human plot-wise and sidelining Cade might have once more missed the target demographic, or perhaps they were adressing the movie to the wrong crowd? The targeted demographic mixup might have influenced the audience decision to see TLK.

    3) Prominent Sci-fi and Fantasy elements. Transformers has been viewd by many as an action-oriented franchise with giant robots and Independance Day undertones. It had more in common with Mission Impossible than Edge of Tomorrow. TLK changed that setting. The mix of both Fantasy and SciFi elements with some dystopian near-future themes might have turned off some regular audience. Pure SciFi or fantasy movies are not in the demand at the moment (Ghost in the Shell, Power Rangers, Prometheus, King Arthur and so on). TLK looked like both. The audience that liked the action-oriented Transformers might have moved their attention to Fast and Furious or Baby Driver since TF decide to embrace their more SciFi roots.

    4) The rise of Fast and Furious. The new FF made first waves in 2011, it was followed by another successful entry in 2013, breaking records in 2015 and dominating international box office in 2017. TF had three movies in the same time span: DOTM, the final chapter in the first trilogy, AOE, a soft reboot stuck between FF6 and F7 and TLK that clashed with F8 carried on the waves of three previous entries in an established franchise. Both series cover the blockbuster corner of action-oriented franchises and probably support the same audience demographic. Due to long breaks between entries, I think that Transformers lost its momentum to rising Fast and Furious.

    So were does all of this leave the Transformers franchise? Should it try to reclaim the action movie crown? Should it explore its SciFi/Fantasy setting and hope that it manages to capture the audience attention that right now is more interested in Game of Thrones and Westworld? Aim for a family crowd?

    What space in the Hollywood landscape should live-action TF movies occupy to be comercially successful?
     
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  2. Sixshot93

    Sixshot93 Well-Known Member

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    As much as I've been defending TLK publicly on here a little bit, even I have to admit that Transformers's time has passed somewhat. I hate saying that but it has to be said.

    Audiences - even today's generation- have moved on from franchises like TFs and Pirates of the Carribean to other franchises like the MCU, DCEU and such. Now, I enjoyed Fast and Furious 7 and 8 (a little) but I have to admit that some of the sexual politics is pretty... ... Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of it. Doesn't matter if Michelle Rodriguez is a sexy badass or that Charlize was the baddie in F8, to me it's sexist. #JustMyOpinion

    Besides that, it's looking likely that Bumblebee and Transformers 6 will be the last instalments in this short-lived expanded universe. It's time for a break until the right place at the right time where TF can come back rebooted with a vengeance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  3. FoolishDoomedCreature

    FoolishDoomedCreature gottagofast

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    Although I mostly agree with you think, I think the biggest problem is franchise fatigue, and I'd say that part of FF7's success was due to Paul Walker's (sadly) death. And there's no doubt this decade is about superheroes. Seriously, how many superhero movies have come out this decade?

    BTW, weren't there plans for full Hasbro Cinematic Universe or it's been abandoned?
     
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  4. Sixshot93

    Sixshot93 Well-Known Member

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    I tweeted at Lindsay Beer,one of the writers of the Hasbro and Transformers writers rooms, on Twitter six months ago and all she said was they were waiting for Paramount and Hasbro to give the green light.

    Guess they either realised it's too ambitious and that there's no way it's gonna work or they scrapped it altogether and we're getting that Transformers/G.I. Joe crossover after all. How do I know? According to DJ Caruso who was supposed to direct GI Joe 3 before he pulled out to do xXx 3, Paramount has a script locked away as a contingency plan ready to go.
     
  5. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    Yes..and I still can't understand why people are so fascinated about it..all these superheroes movies even if they're just coming out all the time now..but what do I know?I don't like "quality" movies after all...
     
  6. CaptainSlayer

    CaptainSlayer "Soundwave just sent out Randal"

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    I have no franchise fatigue when it comes to Transformers. I just hated 4 and 5. I love the series and hope that Bay will actually stay away and someone who better understands the source material will come in and fix things.

    While I would love a reboot, I think the best and most likely option would be for someone to come in and correct things going forward. There's still an absolutely massive cast of Transformers to choose from and so many stories to draw inspiration from.

    We don't need Bumblebee killing Nazi's. We don't need every movie to be 'the end of the world'. I hate when someone says you just need to turn your brain off to enjoy the film, we don't have to do that with giant robot movies.

    The Transformers franchise is a beautiful thing and I think the potential is still there but we need someone who cares about these characters and their lore. We also need someone who has a notebook on hand so they can jot down the most simple continuity for future iterations.

    Transformers: Dark of the Moon is one of my all time favorite films, I believe that it could still be better and this mess can be cleaned up with a better team.

    That of course, is just my thought process. I'm not giving up on the Bayformers - even though I would love too - because at the end of the day, I love seeing live action Transformers in a movie theater with my wife and other fans.
     
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  7. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between F&F and Bayformers: Character developement. Both are mindless popcorn flick, but F&F has character developement, coherent story and continuity. None of these things exist in Bayformers. That's why that franchise is more well received amongst critics and audience.
     
  8. FoolishDoomedCreature

    FoolishDoomedCreature gottagofast

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    What? I haven't complained about hero movies, I love them, just said that there are a lot.

    Yeah, this shouldn't be necessary. "Were people expecting Citizen Kane?" Hell no, but every movie needs a good script.

    Weren't you the guy who accused Bay for something you like to imagine he did?
     
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  9. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

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    I accuse a lot of things against Bay. What do you mean? Do you have any referance from previous post of mine?
     
  10. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    please, don't ever get involved in movie production. The way you're approaching this is analytical in the wrongest way. You're breaking it down into its component parts and saying it failed because it didn't have enough car chase action or sexy girl action, and didn't tick any number of other boxes. Part of the problem with these movies from day one is that they approach them in terms of the ingredients they want the movie to have and throw it all together, rather than letting these elements find their way in an organic story-driven way.

    My take on the under-performance of TLK is that the generation of kids who were excited by Transformers in 2007 are now of an age where all that Bayhem just isn't enough. They will see through these movies in a way they didn't when they were younger. Meanwhile a lot of the older nostalgia-driven segment of the audience has either moved on, or are at a stage in their lives where they are content to wait for in on dvd/bluray/netflix/whatever.
     
  11. FoolishDoomedCreature

    FoolishDoomedCreature gottagofast

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    Here b0ss
     
  12. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

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    It's all true what I said about him and he is the reason why TLK is just a mess of a story and continuity of the previous films thrown out of the window(Optimus commenting BB voice, when in the first film he spoke in the end)
     
  13. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    I think you missunderstood what I meant and that's okay I'll explain:I said I don't understand why people are so fascinated with superhero movies even though there are so many,not saying you complain about them.Hell..I think I'm complaining more lol It's interesting that this happened,I thought people are bored by people in suits messing around so many times a year haha but this is the preference nowadays I guess.I prefer TF and F&F any day but just saying..it's alright..whatever people are into.
     
  14. GirlBot

    GirlBot Mini-Cassette

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    I didn't mean that the movie needs to have a certain quota to fill. However, a lot of people have a precognitive notion of what a movie, and especially a continuation, should have (or rather what they want it to have). A lot of people counted on big robot action sequences like the ones in DOTM or AOE, since TLK did not have those in spades, it might have resulted in the feeling of disappointment. So it has less to do with quota and more to do with the movie not meeting people's expectations. TLK is different in those departments and the change of tone might have influenced people's attitudes. I don't judge whether it was a good or a bad move.

    On the second part. That's a good point. It may be the changing of the guards, so to say. AOE might not have captured enough new blood to support TLK. A lot of people might have finished their TF adventure with DOTM. Some decided to give AOE a chance to see if it's worth following. Hmm, in this situation it may have been the case of AOE actually overperforming. TLK box office numbers might be the actual state of things...

    As for me in production. You don't give people what they want, you give them what they didn't know they needed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  15. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I think part of the problem is there are so many choices for entertainment right now that okay or sub-par no longer cuts it.

    We are flooded with big movies all year round but summer really seems to flood the market. If you got your action movie hero fix with Wonder Woman it wasn't all that hard to just skip Transformers and wait for Spider Man. Sure there are crazy people like me that would go to the movie theater every weekend if my local theater had more than five screens but I'm highly abnormal. Most Americans you are lucky to get them to the theater once a month or every two months.

    TV doesn't stop any more just because it's summer. I've had far more friends buzzing and posting about GLOW on Facebook than I've had mention a movie that wasn't Wonder Woman. Why deal with the movie theater hassle when there is so much TV to binge watch. Also video games aren't just for kids any more so why mess up a good weekend of gaming to go to the movies?

    Even China is getting flooded with choices because everyone wants to be part of the movie boom. Sure Age of Extinction movie sounds nice until you compare it to homegrown favorite The Mermaid at $526 million.

    Looking at the top of domestic charts it seems like hey wow big numbers. But then you start going down the chart a bit and it's only a few stand out winner and a whole mess of films that made under $100 million so far. 2017 Yearly Box Office Results - Box Office Mojo
     
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  16. Promoney121

    Promoney121 Well-Known Member

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    I saw Spiderman last night, it was good. I really think that editing of these transformers movies might be the problem. Unless you tell me there isn't more footage of robots, etc. Because I think the right editing can make these movies way way better.
     
  17. Sixshot93

    Sixshot93 Well-Known Member

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    I just came back from Spider-Man: Homecoming and let's say the horrible memories of The Amazing Spider-Man series came back. But Zendaya is the hottest most beautiful woman I've ever seen. #WokeBae

    But then again, Transformers>Spidey.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  18. GirlBot

    GirlBot Mini-Cassette

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    There's that. To win at box office you need to stand out or have a good rapport with the audience. Back in a day you did not have big summer blockbusters every two weeks. Studios caught up to that, you can notice that in recent years a lot of big movies were moved to the begining and the end of the year: BATB, Star Wars, Justice League, Jungle Book, where there's not much copetition and the movie has enough space to stretch its legs. In a crowded summer lineup medium-budget movies have much better chance at success.

    What to do to make TF stand out in such a crowd?
     
  19. FoolishDoomedCreature

    FoolishDoomedCreature gottagofast

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    I think it would be good to kill franchise fatigue to let each movie do its own thing. Just look at Fox's X-Men Deadpool and Logan have been their best movies in both in quality and recaudation.
     
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  20. Uncrazimatic55

    Uncrazimatic55 Well-Known Member

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    We can point to a lot of things. I know some will always point to the plot and say they were bad and they got bad reviews but they always got bad reviews and people still went. In the end, I think it ultimately comes down to it just got stale. Five movies by the same director gets old. Change is good. Give it a few years and reboot with a new director. People who were brought in by this franchise are going to go see it.