The Fallen is a god

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Caminus Prime, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    Most of you might consider The Fallen the worst villain in bayformers but I for one think highly different past the bad writing and bays stupid hatred enough to look at him as the strongest character in bayverse, essentially "the Emperor" of the Decepticon legion.

    Jetfire was being a complete troll and a thorn on his side throughout the whole movie because in the flashback, he showed the seven primes from HIS point of view. When he made claim that The Fallen was stronger than his brothers, he showed a clip of him getting owned by them. It should all be clear that jetfire wasn't there to see it all and has an obvious vendetta against The Fallen so I would imagine that he'd do whatever it takes to make him look as bad as possible.

    Now onto The Fallen; he's definitely on a different level when it comes to combat and power. He only fears Optimus because of his last name and the SMALLEST odd of him beating him but in truth, Optimus is inferior compared to him even though they never met in person.

    Think about it; Optimus BARELY beated lockdown so what makes anybody think he'd have any chance with Fallen. He literally cried for dear life when Sentinel was about to kill him TWICE, Megatron murdered him fair and square without the military and Blackout stepping in. Even at full strength and without the jetfire steroids, primes just a child with a gun and a sword . The PS2 game and Pachinko video proved that already.

    The Decepticons look up to Megatronus as a deity for a reason, his own brothers feared him enough to run and hide with the Matrix even though there were six of them and one of him. In the final act when he landed; the autobots all trembled to the ground. If that doesnt signify his strength; I dont know what will.

    Whats the moral of this??

    Revenge of the Fallen is WAY better than 07 in certain aspects.

    It had a way better lineup of Decepticons and it could've easily surpassed its predecessor if they letted The Fallen win like Thanos did.

    We could've had a cliffhanger resulting our home (earth) being without a sun, us being blind from darkness and Optimus staying dead, thus building hype on TF3 being the Endgame for the autobots.
     
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  2. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

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    When?? I don't remember Optimus crying for dear life? If you're talking about when Optimus Prime touched Sentinel chest. The same spot he put the matrix into.

    If Optimus was grabbing legs I can see how pleading for his life. It was a lot effort to specifically touched that specific spot.

    Seemed more like a last ditch effort to redeem Sentinel but instead got kicked away.

    While Lockdown was getting the upper hand at times using Optimus' own weight and height against him. Considering Optimus left the battle midway to save Cade's life. I found the undecided.
    Although I do agree that The Fallen is powerful, but I don't agree with your statement that Prime is weak.
     
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  3. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    Prime said "we will kill them all!", I'm sure he was planned to kill sentinel then and washington. He would only try and reason when the odds aren't on his side. Prime just tried talk his way out of death.

    I'm only pointing out his fights with the main villains and the disgusting amount of support and interference both sides got.
     
  4. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    ...then what the fuck is the point of Megatron if he isn't 'the Emperor' of the Decepticons? He's literally their leader.

    Where exactly were you getting 'has a vendetta against The Fallen' from? Jetfire made it very clear the only reason he's on Earth was because he wanted to get away from the war, full stop. What good would 'running away and doing absolutely nothing about The Fallen' do for somebody wanting to take down The Fallen?

    Except for the part where, y'know, they do and Prime rips his face off while simultaneously batting away Megatron and Starscream?

    Lockdown is overrated as fuck but the only reason he even stood a chance the first time was, as I recall, Prime not being at 100% and also being a colossal wuss because 'oh no humans betrayed me how did I not see this coming after they did it TWICE BEFORE at the drop of a hat'. The only reason he wasn't utterly blown apart until the end is because he was literally the only villain worth giving a fuck about in the entire film. He had PLOT ARMOR.

    Like, think about it, Prime has four other Autobots AND the dinobots, and somehow Lockdown who is just this random fucker who isn't even the main bad guy but just a jobber working for the actual bad guys who are never, ever seen, doesn't get ripped to shreds instantly from the fact that A) he's outnumbered, and B) it's the end of the film so of course the Autobots are going to win.

    The real question you should be asking is how is Lockdown, some random asshole from space, is able to eclipse a guy who throws around F-22's with psychic powers.

    Because having the dude you looked up to as a mentor about to blow your brains out would generate any other kind of response?

    "Fair and square" is not terminology that makes any kind of sense with 'murdered'. Plus, are you talking about the fight at the end of TF1 or the forest battle in ROTF? Because Blackout died before he could assist Megatron in fighting Prime, and Grindor was the first to die at Prime's hooks in the forest battle.

    Since when were the video games proof of anything? Like, going off the Transformers: Decepticons game for the Nintendo DS, Barricade is more powerful than Starscream given how that boss fight goes down, and yet in the film gets his ass handed to him by Bumblebee.

    Except Megatronus wasn't his name at the time. ROTF was 2009, the Covenant of Primus came out in 2011 at the earliest. The only existing context for The Fallen at the time ROTF was written was the War Within miniseries from Dreamwave.

    No, because if you were paying attention, the Matrix was needed to power the Solar Harvester, so what it really sounded like was The Fallen took the Matrix and the Harvester to Earth, making the other six Primes have to come to Earth, kick his ass, and then imprison him somehow (I like to imagine by the 'Superman II' method), then in a rather dumb move decide to commit ritualistic suicide to make a tomb of their bodies to hide the Matrix from him when he inevitably broke out. It's incredibly dumb writing so I can't justify it, but that is what happened.

    ...so you're saying he's weaker than Lugnut who wiped an entire Autobot team simply by punching the ground with the Punch of Kill Everything.

    No, not really. It had some cool CGI set pieces AND the forest battle is the best fight of the entire series...but that's about it.

    You completely missed the point of the end of Infinity War if you think they could even achieve something close to a Thanos victory with The Fallen. Thanos is a complex character because he thinks what he's doing is right - eliminate half of all life to ensure that life itself continues to exist because resources or whatever, and he loses everything to achieve this goal to the point of sacrificing his own daughter who he clearly still loves (even if she doesn't return it in kind for obvious reasons).

    The only thing that is going on with ROTF with The Fallen is he set up the Solar Harvester for one reason: FUCK THE HUMANS. Sure, there's all that bullshit about 'oh we need more Energon and this is how we get it' but it sure doesn't seem to be that big a problem given they're still getting it somehow in the later films. No, instead, The Fallen only cares about killing organics, full stop, and he sacrifices nothing if he won ROTF. There couldn't even be a third film if he won ROTF, because no sun means all the humans are dead. Everything organic on Earth is dead. What the fuck are the Autobots supposed to protect if Earth itself is dead?

    And that's before getting into the paradox that is how this impacts DOTM because Sentinel isn't going to be happy to learn his whole enslavement plan got fucked over. And he's a Prime, too, so The Fallen is just flat out fucked anyway.
     
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  5. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    He's a Darth Vader to his Sidious at best and leads to carry out his deeds.


    "He left me here to rust!" & "find the doorway, that was MY mission, it's your mission now" Signifys his conspire against him. Jetfire defected the cons and was trying to shit on The Fallens parade just because some dumb negativity and hate excuse he made up.


    All three of them were sloppy. I wouldn't expect better from a walking dorito who can barely walk, a guy with a lobster hand for weapon, and a twin of blackout that relies on the spinning speed of his rotor blades in order to damage prime.



    This I agree, he didn't even NEED his DOTM/AOE autobots or dinobots. Ratchet would've been just enough to help him deal with Lockdown.

    He tried kill him first, If the tables we're turned in chicago Or washington; Optimus would've killed him sooner.


    TF1 and both adversaries had help coming in when it should've been 1V1 from start to finish.


    The Fallen was still able to pin prime down and hold his own while optimus was on jetfire steroids.


    That's still his first alias. Orion pax wasn't even Optimus primes birth name until 25+ years later.


    They never imprisoned him in some mirror, he was sitting in the nemesis ship and waited until the last prime was dead.


    Yes, let's not forget The Fallen's the only being with Mutant complex powers. Optimus would be a rag doll to him.


    It still had a better and a potentially more competent lineup of cons. 07 was wack with Bonecrusher thinking that attacking Optimus alone was ever a good idea, Frenzy killing himself, barricade and SS deserting their peers and megatron being a complete moron over a cube. TF2s crew would've all been great together if they weren't scattered or singled out one by one. Everybody (including SS & Megs) was sane and had reasonable motives for the situation they were all in.


    Their lives? Because there's still hundreds of decepticons on earth so it'll be the fight of their lives.

    That in itself would set up a kickass plot for TF3: War for dead planets

    This chain of events will be of nothing but madness, chaos and havoc on earth after humanity dies from pitch black darkness, no cringy patriotism bullshit or ANY aggravating humans left. Sentinel would seek to kill The Fallen for ruining his plans, Megatron would struggle to figure out who's side he's on as they try to kill each other, the autobots will either embrace the crazy gong show or fight their way out, either way they'll be in the middle of it. Lockdown will even add fuel to the flames as he comes in the fray to collect all three primes on earth. The dinobots will break out while he's hunting and just kill everything they see while the war rages on a dark and dead earth. Assuming The autobots found a way to revive Optimus in TF3, he will wake up wondering wtf happening as hell has broken loose between his 'brother', his 'other brother', his mentor, and his would-be captor as they all have an anchorman type battle. Optimus would have no choice but to embrace the chaos also as all humans are dead and he's seeking to avenge them.

    This would be a perfect story ark for the autobots who spent three movies trying to avoid another large scale WFC only to be dragged into another one for one last time as that has ALWAYS been their fate.

    TF3 would end up with no human fillers to add or cringy craps because the whole conflict would be a serious life and death situation for every Cybertronians left. It'll be catastrophic bloodbath, but a funny catastrophic bloodbath.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  6. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Except you know who is more marketable? Megatron. That's the sole reason he was ever in the films past DOTM - they needed him purely because of recognition. The fact he's second in command is a complete insult to who Megatron is at his core - a power monger. Playing second fiddle is a no-go otherwise what seperates him from anybody else like, say, a generic and poorly written Overlord?

    I don't recall that first line in the film and the second is, well, A) it's not like Jetfire is going to be able to do much and B) he's a really old bastard who barely managed to get out of a building. What good would he have been tagging along with the humans?

    That does not change the fact you are using a fucking video game as proof and I just did the same to prove how utterly stupid an argument that is.

    So, again, why is Lockdown more powerful than fucking Fallen? These films aren't exactly well written.

    Somehow I doubt that but then again movie Prime is particularly more 'mortal kombat fatality' oriented than other Optimus Primes.

    Nah, I disagree, because 1 v 1s are boring.

    You mean the part where Prime litterally just woke up from being dead? I hardly would think a guy who basically just got their heart restarted by defibulator would be in any condition to fend off a child from trying to kill them, let alone a rip off Sith lord robot.

    No. You do not get to play this card. Megatronus was not a thing back in 2009. You can not retroactively pull this bullshit justification. The only fucking reason that The Fallen got named Megatronus is because of the lazy as fuck design in the Covenant of Primus which is blatantly meant to look like Megatron. If you're going to try and justify the writing of something, then you are limited to what was relevant within that context at the time of writing. Otherwise, you are literally suggesting that the writers - who probably threw together the script in a few weeks given it was during the writer's strike - knew about content that Hasbro wouldn't bring about until literally years later when they decided to focus on the Thirteen - with disastrous results. Additionally, if they did, then there would have been TWELVE OTHER FIRST PRIMES, not six, in ROTF.

    Then he fucking failed because he somehow completely forgot about Sentinel on the moon, or Megatron never told him despite evidently having known about it the whole time, too.

    Again, ROTF is a shitty film. It doesn't make a lot of sense but it was more spectacle over logical execution. That's pretty much the only thing the TF films have going for them.

    But you just defended the idea of 1 v 1!

    That was an accident.

    Barricade dissapearing was an oversight but Starscream abandoning the others is a totally Starscream move. Megatron gets killed and everybody (except Barricade who presumably would have died during the fight anyway going off supplemental material like the comics and novelization) who was there died with him? Time to go back to the main Decepticon body and declare himself leader.

    Well, since you're the one using VIDEO GAMES as justification all of a sudden, in the 2007 PC Transformers game, if Megatron gets the cube, he puts it into his chest, fusing with his spark and gaining power or something (it's not clear because the game then simply ends). Sure, this is how he died in the film, but you're the one acting like the games even mean anything to begin with. This isn't the Metal Gear saga, to put it mildly.

    And yet everybody fucking loves AoE for doing this exact thing with the Autobots.

    I think you've forgotten the whole 'live action' aspect is the thing that Paramount was really preferring over actually having the robots. If everything on Earth is fucking dead, then they literally can't make the movie because all the humans are dead and having humans suddenly not be dead makes zero sense, even by shitty Transformers standards.

    Because that's the thing that's so ironic about the films; the most important thing is the survival of the human race because the people making the films literally didn't care about the robots. Lorenzo outright didn't want the robots to talk in the first film, which I think speaks volumes about how much he thinks of them as characters that can carry a narrative.

    That is some terrible fanfiction. Plus you clearly never read the novelization of ROTF where Megatron leaves The Fallen to die after Optimus points out that the sole reason Megatron was still taking Fallen's bullshit; that Fallen would make Megatron a Prime, is an impossibility.

    and since we're apparently using the video games of all things as canon, then everything is fair game.

    Avoid? Please, Earth is just a new battlefield of the ongoing conflict. Always has been.

    Again, I think you've forgotten that people who make the films care more about the human leads than the robots.
     
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  7. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    I agree that the Fallen was way stronger than what was pitched for the film.
     
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  8. drbeakman

    drbeakman Well-Known Member

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    Why does this feel more like your own imagination rather than the actual intentions of the writing? I don't think that competent writers put THIS much burden on the audience to figure things out for themselves. It's not like the movies in the bayverse are mystery/thrillers...

    lets face it, the bayverse is terribly written-- whether on purpose out of spite, or laziness, or through chaotic producer meddling like combining various scripts or flat out not even having one -- with the intent to suck as much money out of the audience as possible via spectacle and marketing, with as little regard or care for the franchise it was meant to convey
     
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  9. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    Doesn't really matter because The Fallen existed in this continuity so Megatron is either with him or against him.


    Literally when sam did his ugly carvings on the grass in front of him. Then he wasted his fucking time getting up in the first place.


    Is this because I mentioned the PS2 game and the pachinko video once? I literally only mentioned it on one of my topics which is me claiming prime as a child with a gun and sword.


    You're literally the only person that said that.


    If you trained somebody to be as ruthless, cold blooded serial killer like you; would you take any chances if they're using your own training against you???


    If not given the right choreography, it can be boring. Take the God Of War 4 for example.


    The Fallen is literally made up of metal muscles. Even without Sith powers, he can still take on prime at ease.


    Hey don't blame me, blame the stupid moderators on tfwiki for making the confusion a thing when they're the ones in charge of their user/editors.


    Sentinel was stasis locked deep in his ship for 42 years. If he has no life signal then The Fallen clearly can't sense his presence. This also corresponds to Megatrons endgame as he's clearly playing both sides so long as it benefits him.


    Perhaps but we still can't pretend like he didn't just lift and slam a bunch of military soldiers on a pyramid let alone a bunch of ring rocks around the harvester.


    Yes but The highway situation didn't require it though.


    I stand corrected


    ...What body?


    Even if I wasn't using The Games, Ratchet clearly pointed out the cube being of raw power. Sam demonstrated that simply SMASHING the cube to the ground is all you need to transform earths machine so I doubt Megatron wouldn't be stupid enough to jam it in his chest or waste it's energy to transform some lowlife machines. ROTF already established that he was planned use it to save their race from perishing.


    Nothing was interesting about those autobots. The general TF villains were always more exciting than autobots



    That is why Universal should've had the movie rights. They simply don't value human factors as much as paramount does. Even without the ILM budgets, they still would've pulled it off under a different animation (illumination?)


    You mean GOOD fanfiction? because TF3 would literally end the series with a bang if it happened.

    Also, You're being a hypocrite. nobody reads fucking novel books. Outside of movies, Games have more prevalences to the entertainment media than anything else.


    It ain't like prime had a choice, he can't get every autobot off the planet without getting blasted by Starscream. When the Allspark was destroyed, Galloway pointed out that Optimus thought "the enemies had left the planet". If not for The Fallens thirst for revenge; he could've been right.



    Those people had no business taking over the movie liscence and again, this is why Hasbro should've reached out to Universal instead of paramount. They would've had the bigger budgets and better drive to uphold value of the franchises namesake. If done so, we wouldn't have spent 11 painful years stuck with rats like Lorenzo.
     
  10. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    The Fallen was a load of old shit; poorly implemented and a waste of goddamn money and effort.
     
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  11. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi it’s five o’clock somewhere

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    This post I read long ago summed up my opinion on the Fallen pretty neatly:
     
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  12. ChaosDonkey

    ChaosDonkey Lord Brain

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    he was flying around in space minding his own business and singing"always look on the bright side of life", when he was suddenly blinded by the sun and crashed on earth among stupid umiez. It just ruined what should have been a good day
     
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  13. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Sounds like a YouTube Poop and yet still entertaining in an absurdist sense.
     
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  14. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    What a dumb fucking God he turned out to be.
     
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  15. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    You're acting like the Transformers universe just exists somewhere and humans adapted it for a movie. The Fallen didn't exist in the movies until the production team made a conscious choice to add him.

    That's like if I directed Transformers 6 and just had rocks fall from the sky and kill everyone, and then when you complain I just go "sorry bro, I don't make the rules. That's just how it works in that universe."
     
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  16. Cyberbot8460

    Cyberbot8460 ACCESS FLASH

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    The Fallen would work if he was used like he was in the Dreamwave comics. THAT is a villain. Bay's Fallen was a sack of sad shit.
     
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  17. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Red and black red and black

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    I mean, I respect that this is your head canon and no one can tell you what to think but yourself but...seriously man. The Fallen says "Die like your brothers!" and literally gets killed SECONDS after this. Optimus takes what I like to call the "Megatron Scenic Route," humiliating him effortlessly before going back onto the main road. By logic LOCKDOWN is more of a challenger than the Fallen, and that could be for a ton of reasons. Lockdown is a more seasoned fighter than the Fallen. Age does not mean capability. It just means you're old. Lockdown presumably fights a lot. He is willing to get his hands dirty, so suffice to say it would reason that he has enough fight experience to be a challenge for Optimus. The Fallen was someone who most definitely relied on his powers, but when it came down to a scrap he didn't have the practical experience to really put up a real fight.
     
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  18. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    You're right, I just thought the fallen would be the biggest trump card for the decepticon army hence why Megatron calls him "master" all the time but I guess he's not that guy.
     
  19. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    [​IMG]

    Unless you're not aware, Loki here is filling in for the Fallen, and Hulk is subbing for Optimus Prime.
     
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  20. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    It'd be cool if his life ended with optimus throwing him IN the sun. There he can sort his hatred for it out before burning to cinders.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019