The Dreaded Gold Plastic Syndrome and Potential Cures/Treatments

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Michael Schlem, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. Michael Schlem

    Michael Schlem Well-Known Member

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    This thread all about the dreaded Gold Plastic Syndrome and thinking of potential cures/treatments. I just really hate it that so many toys are breaking. So I have a hypothesis on one of them. A soak in Armor-All Plasticizer. I have already posted this in the Discussion page of Gold Plastic Syndrome's entry in the Transformers Wiki. I'll copy and paste it from there.
    "I have an idea as a potential treatment (not cure as it may need to be repeated a couple times to keep being effective). I have no idea if this would work. I am just saying a potential solution. That solution is Armor-All Plasticizer. The idea is that using a plasticizer for cars on the Gold Plastic might give the toy a little more time. My idea for the process is 1) Make a tub of Armor-All Plasticizer 2) Holding any non Gold Plastic Parts, gently put the toy in 3) Allow the Armor-All to soak into the toy and 4) take it out. If anyone has a toy that is a common victim of GPS and it hasn't fallen victim to it, try this process out and tell me if it works. --806mtson (talk) 15:52, 11 April 2020 (EDT)"
    This is sort of a revamp of the "Gold Plastic Syndrome cured? But when?" thread. I hope for a cure as much as you guys do. Hopefully we can solve it.
     
  2. iacon45

    iacon45 Missing: One Custom Title

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    It would nice to stabilize GPS. Thankfully my BW Grimlock and G2 Electro are intact but I get nervous every time I touch them or even look at them.
     
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  3. stephen

    stephen Well-Known Member

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    Jesus, You have an intact Electro! I tip my hat to you sir.
     
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  4. iacon45

    iacon45 Missing: One Custom Title

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    He is still in one piece. The only issue is his hips are so weak he cannot stand.

    0kueyjO.jpg
     
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  5. Michael Schlem

    Michael Schlem Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, WOW. Seemingly Impossible

    Just WOW.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2020
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  6. grune7

    grune7 Well-Known Member

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    I've got one too, I'm afraid to even try to take it out of car mode. I'm really curious if this would work
     
  7. Michael Schlem

    Michael Schlem Well-Known Member

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    For those who are wondering, my idea was that Armor-All is most commonly used in car interiors and they are made of Polypropylene. Even though the plastic in question is different, it is similar enough. Plasticizers should work on the Gold Plastic because of it being, well, plastic. Electro could also use Ace Lub-E which inhibits rust, huh, I think I may have an idea. The plastic is somehow "rusting". There must be some metal in the Gold Plastic mixture. That would explain the inconsistent deterioration of the metallic plastics.
    Someone who has a toy which became a victim to the GPS and have access to a centrifuge, take some shards of it, melt them down, and put it in a centrifuge. See if metal falls out of the plastic suspension.
     
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  8. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    I (no longer) have any GPS susceptible figures (well, TM Megatron, but mine seems to hold up thanks to a construction error), but I wanted to experiment with Paraloid B-72 when I still had access to it.

    This is a resin used extensively in archaeological conservation. It's turned into a liquid (most often with acetone, but other solvents also work) and the object is submerged in it. With archaeological conservation (pottery for example), the Paraloid then works it way slowly into the pores of the material and "glues" these parts together. Note: it doesn't glue the shards togehter, but within a single shard it strengthens the bond between the particles.

    This could potentially work with GPS plastics. The TF wiki describes part of the problem as the bond between parts breaking down and cracks appearing in the plastic. If the Paraloid could reach these cracks it would work its way into them and glue the different components from the part in question more strongly together. It wouldn't cure GPS, but the already existing cracks would be sealed/strengthened giving it a longer life.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  9. Michael Schlem

    Michael Schlem Well-Known Member

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    All of us are making great ideas. I wanted us all to just talk about it because I thought many heads are better than 1.
     
  10. Axos

    Axos Well-Known Member

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    Problem: Acetone melts the plastic of the toy as well.
     
  11. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    Not so much a problem since, as I wrote, there are other solvents that work as well. And those don't melt the plastic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
  12. Michael Schlem

    Michael Schlem Well-Known Member

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    Wait, wait, wait. A construction error is SAVING your Transmetal Megatron. How in Tarn-nations?
     
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  13. Sixwing

    Sixwing You have chosen poorly

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    It'd be nice if someone could find a cure for it. To my understanding, it's caused by some sort of weakness in the plastic caused by use of the metal used to make it shiny and swirly. I'm probably getting something wrong though.
     
  14. Michael Schlem

    Michael Schlem Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. By George I think I've got it. I think that Gold Plastic Syndrome is caused by the presence of whatever metal in the plastic causing the plasticizer that makes the plastic not brittle to react with the metal as water would. As the metal absorbs more and more plasticizer, it expands and cracks the already brittle plastic. I found this article. How to Solve the Biggest Floor Compatibility Problem: Plasticizer Migration It is all about how plasticizers in PVC tiles can migrate to the adhesive that is used to attach the tile to the floor. Here is a direct quote about the symptoms. "Plasticizer migration can cause flooring tiles to discolor, soften, or in the worst-case scenario, slide around as the adhesives dissolve into an oozing mess and stop holding the floor tiles in place." Here is an article from sciencedirect.com. Plasticizer Migration - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics It covers plasticizer migration in better details.

    If plasticizer can migrate from in a tile to the adhesive holding it, it isn't unlikely that it would react with whatever metal is in the metallic plastic.

    Does this make much sense?
     
  15. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    You know typically metallic plastic, especially in the context of toys, just means plastic that looks like metal in color and in the textures/shapes within it? It doesn't literally mean it has metals in it.
     
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  16. Pixelmaster

    Pixelmaster >implying toys are good

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    Transmetal Megatron doesn't have GPS; it uses swirly plastic on high pressure points. The Takara version doesn't have this issue due to it being casted in black paint with paint.
     
  17. jru42287

    jru42287 Ass Möde is a way of life.

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    It definitely has something similar to GPS. Both copies that I had started to become brittle and crumble to dust. Joints started getting this fine dust in them and stopped moving smoothly.
     
  18. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    Just because it itsn't gold, doesn't mean it's not GPS. That swily brown plastic is susceptible to gps because it's made by mixing metal flakes with plastic, and it crumbles to dust.

    Well, the waist at least. It's been a while since I compared it with Armada Predacon, but when I turn TM Megatron at the waist (or transform him), I basically take him apart because turning that is unscrewing it. (Not really explaiining it well.) In short, if I remember correctly, some parts are missing that are supposed to keep the torso attached to the waist (by keeping the screw in) when rotating the waist.

    When I bought him in the 90's I was very frustrated with this and found it dumb design: after every couple of transformations I have to take his waist apart to reattach his (unbroken) torso and reinsert the screw. When I got A Predacon and he didn't have the same issue (and a waist that worked more as ratchet instead of a loose friction), I realised mine was missing a part to prevent this. The part that likely puts some stress on the connection and thus prevents the GPS from have happened. But the cure is only marginally better than the plague, because he still falls apart at the waist every so often, but then I can reattach it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
  19. Michael Schlem

    Michael Schlem Well-Known Member

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    It was just a theory. I didn't mean that it was true or not. It was just an idea.
    Here is someone else's hypothesis.
    “ The problem likely arises, as with many composites, when the bonding between the polymer and the dye/particles breaks down. This could occur do to a natural chemical/phase change of the plastic, due to oxidation, for example, or by another mechanism, say the forces incurred by the toy being played with, or more likely, due to some combination thereof. In any case, when the bonds between the particles and the polymers break down, you would get small voids in the plastic structure. If this occurs frequently enough, the structure would become effectively porous (that is, it would be filled with lots of tiny voids/cracks where the polymers and particles have come apart). With even a slight amount of force, some of these cracks/voids could expand, even slightly, to the point where they intersect another void and join, making an even bigger crack. Once a critical crack length is reached, the sample fractures.
    So effectively, the plastic becomes more brittle, and this would also explain it "crumbling" as well as cracking.

    -Aernaroth suggests a cause for GPS on the Allspark

    I have watched one person who tried to make plastic out of paper

    Here is that one channel on YouTube. NileRed

    I am just trying to figure out the why it happens and the how to prevent it.

    The "how to prevent it" means this: How can we prevent more toys from falling victim to GPS
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2020
  20. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

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    The thread makes me feel like no one has read this simple page dedicated to this issue.
    Gold Plastic Syndrome - Transformers Wiki

    And yes, it's recognized as due to both metal flakes in the paint, or just bad plastic formulation.

    This isn't rust nor anything that can be fixed easily, it's the chemical bond of the plastic that breaks down.

    One might be able to try a few chemical solution to seal, rebond, or anything that might restore the plastic, but they'd need to have something that penetrates into the part completely, that would be non-toxic, wash out and replace the molecules that are causing the issue.

    A dunk in Armor-all stuff doesn't sound like it'll work, but hey, I'll hope someone gives it a try and see how it goes.