For one thing, the Loki rules did not exist when Endgame released. They hold no bearing on what happened.

For another thing, there is no way of understanding when Loki's time at the TVA takes place relative to Endgame. For all we know Steve hasn't traveled back in time yet, and this his Nexus Event hasn't occurred yet.

But you're still focused on the time travel part of this theory. I'm much more interested in how you justify:
- Who/where people thought Peggy's husband, who she talked about in newsreel but who never showed his face in public, actually was.
- How Peggy hid Steve from Howard Stark, someone she saw at work every day who knew Steve personally.
- How Steve managed to get to Wakanda, convince the border patrol he was actually Captain America (a man everyone thought was dead), convince the notoriously isolated nation to even care that he was Captain America, and then convince them to make him a shield out of their sacred metal.
- How Steve was okay with letting Bucky kill Howard and Maria, knowing that it was the single most significant factor in why the Avengers didn't form a unified front against Thanos in 2018.

 

The TVA exists outside of time and references the time heist from Endgame, therefore from their perspective they are aware of the events of Endgame. Also, loki not existing as a show at the time is irrelevant, it's called a retcon and it absolutely matters because it is canon. You can keep denying it all you want, but you have no evidence to back up your claim and your claim doesn't make any sense when faced with the expansion of the time travel rules established in loki. You cannot reasonably ignore the series because it's entire premise is about setting up the multiverse, which didn't exist yet during Endgame.

Sure, they created branched realities, at least 8, during Endgame. 1 for each stone (2 for the tessaract) and 1 for 2014 without Thanos. Steve pruned 6 of those himself by returning the stones and mjolnier, 1 the TVA pruned onscreen in the 1st episode of loki and 1 they pruned off screen (2014 without Thanos). The only logical explanation for old Steve is that he remained in the sacred timeline because the monitor at the TVA only showed a single timeline and displays when branches are created.

To put it simply, the actual evidence that exists within the MCU is contradictory to what you are saying.

Also, if Steve interfered in events he wasn't supposed to then that variant timeline would have been pruned, so he wouldn't have really had much of a choice in not interfering because every instance of him interfering would have gotten deleted.

 

It works well enough for them to 'improve' it. People forget how much Marvel throws shit at the wall and hope it sticks. They lost me with Banner's *clap* TIME TRAVEL!

 

I mean, sure. They're expanding on it after the fact, but that's typical for comics and comic-based properties. I'm just not the biggest fan of a good chunk of Endgame or how they explained their version of time travel. I'm also of the opinion that the only reason it's being expanded upon or "improved" as you say is because of who the MCU is seemingly setting up to replace Thanos as the overarching big bad based on the latest episode of Loki.

  Yeah, that scene with Banner. But then the way they depicted Professor/Smart Hulk was another major sticking point for me when it comes to Endgame.

 

1) Since they never showed him, her husband could have been Steve all along, right?
2) How do you know Peggy hid Steve from Howard Stark? Maybe they let him in on the secret? and...
3) ...Howard knowing about Steve would explain the new shield. Howard made the first shield and could have made him another, right? The Shield existing when Cap came back as an old man seems like a hint that he was indeed acting as Captain America in the past - albeit covertly.
4) Just like Doctor Strange said if he had a choice between the time stone and letting Tony die, he would choose the stone, but then he saw the only possible way of beating Thanos was for events to play out in one specific way, so he had to do something he didn't want to do to make that happen. Same thing here. If Steve saves Tony's parents and the Avengers are united, maybe Thanos takes them more seriously and shows up with his troops and wipes them out together, rather than splitting up to collect the stones. (Maybe he makes sure to have the other non-earth stones first so as to be more powerful for the first meeting)

 

Endgame is my least favorite Avengers movie.

 

The TVA exists outside of time, but time still passes there. There are Nexus Events that occurred before Ravonna became a judge, and ones that occurred after, and regardless of what time period they happened in they all happened in an order. Ravonna and Loki were specifically discussing their incursion into 2012, which didn't create a Nexus Event by the TVA's rules.

Which is easier for you to believe? That the man who has at every crossroads in his life chosen to put others before himself just... stopped doing that, or that an organization founded on multiple lies isn't capable of doing everything they say?

 

1 (and 2) That's what people are implying, that Steve was secretly Peggy's husband the whole time. But then, does that mean Peggy never brought her husband to SHIELD company picnics, or to meet her family at Christmas, or outside grocery shopping? Peggy did not live an isolated life. Her involvement with Captain America's team was well documented, even if the specifics were classified. And she was the administrator of a major US intelligence organ for several decades.
3. Howard told Steve during the war that the Vibranium in his shield was all the Vibranium they had. I guess you could argue that they bought some from Klaue through black market channels after he did his heist, but now you're saying they're only allowed to use knowledge of future events for personal reasons.
4. Steve isn't a sorcerer. He doesn't know how to distinguish an event that won't disturb the timeline from one that will. The "What if the Avengers never split up" thing is a whole other topic (one I wish we could talk about instead of arguing about whether Steve is a sociopath), but he wouldn't have any warning. If he created a Nexus Event (and the TVA detected it) they wouldn't send him a cease and desist, they would immediately erase him and everyone he's ever met from existence. The only reason he would consciously try not to interfere is if he made that decision himself.

 

Again, if Steve did anything to alter his place in the timeline he would have been pruned. You keep ignoring this very simple fact. If he created a variant timeline he would have been pruned. Old Steve existing in the first place heavily implies (retroactively) that he resided in the sacred timeline the entire time. Any version of him that would try and alter the sacred timeline (including existing in a variant timeline) would get pruned.

It's easier for me to believe what the evidence actually shows rather than your what ifs

 

So, why wasn't Loki arrested in 2012 on the first day the TVA was open for business? And who are they going to prune tomorrow?

 

Loki was arrested almost immediately after creating a variant timeline and that timeline was promptly pruned. Did you even watch the show?

 

Because story

 

But you must realize that by not interfering with the timeline that Thanos was defeated in saved HALF of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE!

Steve Rodgers was a soldier, he fought his war, WON it, then went home.

He was one of the lucky ones.



Sorry if him not being a martyr that tried carrying the whole world on his back until the weight crushed him dissatisfied you.

 

3 - Yeah, but that was in 1942. I imagine that sometime between the end of the war and Howard's death by the Winter Soldier, it's very likely they would have acquired more somewhere in that timeframe.
4 - Steve isn't a sorcerer, but he understands cause and effect in the timestream and what tampering means. But yeah, if we assume that he was righting wrongs covertly as Captain America (as the new shield and Red Guardian's story seem to imply) Then how did he pick and choose which things were ok for him to interfere with and which were not? I guess we can assume that he made a decision not to interact with anything that personally affected him, but the whole concept of him making any changes in the past and just explaining it away by the timekeepers saying 'that was always supposed to happen' is pretty deus ex machina.

It seems like there are plans for them to explain this stuff down the line and they are just planting seeds right now.

 

He didn't choose. Everytime he made a decision that would alter the timeline, that version would be promptly pruned along with it's new timeline, leaving only a Steve Rogers that didn't alter the timeline though remained active in some capacity.

The writers of Endgame also say that Cap stayed in the main timeline and created a time loop, the directors claim it was a different timeline, but in this case I'd believe the writers over the directors.

 

We got pruned.

 

Apparently at some point a guy who doesn't know what a fish is and a drink Russian lunatic became the authorities on continuity in the MCU.

Immediately after he did it. Tons of stuff happened at the TVA before he was arrested. If you were in the TVA the entire time you would experience a linear series of events. Loki was always going to make that decision, but because he hasn't made it yet the TVA didn't arrest him yet.

And in the timeline where he helps Peggy root out the corruption inside SHIELD he saves THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. There's no snap, there's no war, Natasha and Tony get to be with their families. Steve wouldn't just sit by because everything turns out right in the end. It super doesn't.

 

Steve got a happy ending and he's done. The "how" doesn't matter to me so much. There's a thousand ways to introduce some plot engine that allows for it. Maybe the time stone is the last stone he returned and the Ancient One gave him This One Special Trick to have his happy alternate timeline without the TVA stopping him. The point is his war is over and he got the girl. Why mess that up with logistics when it doesn't matter?

 

  Yeah, welcome to fandom dude. Enjoy your stay.  

 

They didn't arrest Loki prior to becoming a variant because he wasn't a variant at that time. It's not that hard to understand.

Also, wasn't it Cap that once said in Age of Ultron "Everytime someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die. Every time."

If he truly believes that then he knows not to interfere, his ideology would actually prevent it.