Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by HarryFA1, Sep 7, 2011.
I agree with you on that.
The reasoning is that the Matrix choose the new leader not Optimus Prime. So Ultra Magnus was just holding it till the real leader showed up. Besides by that logic Galvatron was the leader of the Autobots when he took the Matrix from Ultra Magnus.
Its not the matrix but the command. Ultra Magnus was both matrix bearer as well as the Top Commander of the Autobots.
This may be a dumb question, but did Star Saber ever carry the matrix? I am not familiar with Victory but have not been able to find anything linking him to it on tfwiki.
the problem with your logic is that it implies one needs the matrix to be the leader.
There were a number of leaders rhat did not carry the Matrix.
That's also what I'm saying. Magnus wasn't a Prime (which is not the question), but he was the leader of all Autobots for a short time and carried the sign of station which generally went with it. Optimus was sans-Matrix in Headmasters but continued to be Supreme Commander and a Prime.
"Supreme Commander" is purely a term from the Japanese dub. Ultra Magnus was never referred to that title in dialogue or any of the manga, that's why he doesn't qualify.
Awww the poll is closed i would have chose Ultra Magnus.
But Leader is only bearer of the matrix, which Magnus never did. So he was never Leader, although Optimus might have planned so. Maybe he should have told Magnus that the Matrix would fit into his inner robot
There, I just checked TFWiki and it is even written there:
but this takes us back to "prime" vs "supreme commander". Rodimus was the last prime and I believe also the last matrix bearer. He was not however the final supreme commander.
For the short amount of time between optimus and rodimus ultra magnus was the sole leader of the autobots. He was not a prime but he had all of the authority and as no one (but the matrix) foresaw his leadership coming to an end so quickly he would have held the title of supreme commander despite not being a prime.
To say he was simply a placeholder implies that they knew someone else would take the lead sometime soon after. In which case Optimus would have just said "keep this for a while till a new leader is found."
Maybe in the Japanese cartoons or if you're referring to small group leaders like Primal but G1 U.S. series it looks like you need to be chosen by the Matrix to be the leader of all Autobots.
I'm mainly just ruling out anything that wasn't in the U.S. G1 series because I don't speak Japanese.
Now if we want to judge group leaders rather than leader of all Autobots than Grimlock, Silverbolt, Wreck-Gar and all the other leaders of their respective sub groups should be added to the poll.
With just the leader of all Autobots on the list it's just Rodimus Prime vs. himself sense Ultra Magnus was never really the leader. Ultra Magnus was like a Commander filling in for his Captain. That doesn't make him the Captain if he was never promoted.
In Japan, they actually didn't premiere the Movie until 3ish years after season 3 ended, so for all intents and purposes, Ultra Magnus was not leader before Rodimus and thus never got to be the Supreme Commander
But he WAS the leader. When Optimus died he made Ultra Magnus the leader of the Autobots. Not just some...but ALL across the galaxy. Rodimus took control when he became a Prime, but Ultra Magnus was the absolute commander of the Autobot forces for the amount of time ti took him to wreck his space ship and get shot.
INFACT had he wanted to keep the position and was a little less honorable he could have easily caused a rift in the Autobots by claiming he was still leader once Hot Rod became Rodimus Prime.
It would come down to "The guy Optimus (with all of the wisdom of the matrix) chose as the best leader" versus, the guy who got Optimus killed and kept the Matrix after taking it back from Galvatron.
I think this would make an interesting fan-fic at least.
Even still the movie would serve as a flashback to at least explain wtf Rodimus (and the rest) came from. So he still would have commanded all Autobots and been matrix bearer at one point in time.
I'm just saying that he was in charge from Optimus' death until Rodimus' "birth". No one had any reason to believe the same idiot who crashes Kup's stop signs and interferes in climatic battles would somehow be chosen as Prime. And really no one probably thought of there being a change when a Prime is chosen as Optimus himself was supposed to be "rebuilt" by Alpha trion from Orion Pax, and not transformed/reformatted by the Matrix. I think Rodimus came about as a last ditch effort by the Matrix to save all of Cybertron. Had Magnus been the one to fall down the wrong pipe it would have done the same for him...three baddies on the planet of junk just isn't worth its time.Even Wheelie could have been Prime with those odds of survival.
The poll is closed but my vote goes to Rodimus Prime!
I don't know much about the Japanese Series or the comics but going with reference to the G1 show, imo, he is the next best thing. As others stated, he was an interesting character because not only did he have big shoes to fill, I think the creators of the show wanted to intruduce to the audience how Optimus might have started out as a great Autobot leader.
Rome wasn't build in a day! Based on the G1 show as my reference, Optimus had years, centuries of experience to become the great leader we were already intruduced to from the first episode of season 1. Rodimus Prime only had a fraction of that experience as soon as the first episode of season 3 and soon after it cancelled. Rodimus Prime wasn't perfect which is something I expected from someone who just inherited a great responsibility but he had all the traits which Optimus had.
I didn't pick Ultra Magnus because simply he wasn't the chosen one. Fine, let's say to even it up, that the Matrix doesn't chose who the next leader would be... but the simple fact is when Optimus chose him to lead the Autobots, Magnus bowed down and was contempt as a soldier (city commander). My question to those who picked Ultra Magnus IS: Why chose a leader who doesn't BELIEVE in himself?
You seem to be missing my point that Optimus didn't get to decide who the leader was, the Matrix made the choice not Optimus. Hot Rod was always the leader, he just didn't know it yet. Magnus was just a fill in till the real leader showed up.
Also Ultra Magnus never wanted to be the leader. He even told Optimus Prime that before he died. The only difference between Rodimus Prime and Ultra Magnus is that Magnus was more mature about accepting a position of responsibility he didn't want. This makes perfect sense too considering Magnus is much older than Hot Rod.
Anyway, back on subject. Think of it like the new Star Trek movie. Captain Pike dies and Spock as the first officer took command of the Enterprise but that does not make him the Captain. Kirk later took over and he was given the true command. That's basically what happen with Ultra Magnus and Hot Rod. Magnus was an "acting" captain, not a "true" captain. He took command but was never officially promoted. Hot Rod becoming Rodimus Prime officially promoted him to that rank while Ultra Magnus stayed at the same rank he had before Prime was killed.
That's an good example.
Exactly! Thank You!
lol if you think logic or facts mean anything to Japanese continuity
To rule out anything but the U.S.G1 series doesnt make sence in this conversation.
The guy who started the poll obviously wanted to consider the Japanese series since he added Japanese characters to the poll.So any answer that ignors those series is factually incorrect at face falue.
Also, your acting as if its been factuaaly eatablished that the matrix chose Hotrod by "intelecual picking", now true its a valid theroy, but its never been directly stated in the G1 toon.
Its just as likely that the matrix is keyed to only effect a few persons that share a genetic link with it.
i know lots of people rag on Hot Rod/Rodimus, but i really liked him. Ultra Magnus woulda been good too, but i think he fit perfectly into a kind of "second in command + mentor to Rodimus" role. Fortress Maximus was good too, i liked him.
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