The All New Marvel Now Thread (Renamed and Rebooted!)

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by Star Saber, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Not all that is seen is truth. TFW2005 Supporter

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    As a long time Cyclops fan (like, he's been my favorite X-Man since I started reading comics in the mid/late 80's as a kid) I personally enjoyed his character's story arc from 2001 onward. Cyclops WAS right.

    A lot of the issue came with the hypocritical narrative that Marvel was trying to push. With Cap amd Wolverine being written as the sanctimonious good guys and thus Cyclops must take the fall as the villain, because we've got a major movie releasing in 2012 so no way we can make the Avengers looks like they're doing wrong in any of this. I mean... for all people's bitching (in and out of comics) about Scott killing Prof X... everyone seems to be forgetting that the high and mighty sanctimonious Logan was willing to kill Hope in cold blood to stop her potential Phoenix Force possession. Which, in world, was made all the more hypocritical by Logan blaiming Scott for the murder of Charles while giving Jean a free pass at destroying ENTIRE FUCKING GALAXIES. Of course they retconned that shit as being "not really Jean" years ago, but still.

    Same shit with Wanda. Seems female characters go crazy and in universe (and readers) everyone's willing to forget and let them play the victim card. Male character gets legit possessed and many in universe (and a lot of readers) are ready to condemn him for the same shit the female characters get to play the victim card on. And, again, that's not even getting into the fact that since Schism Wolverine has been one giant fucking hypocrite all of which has been brushed aside both in universe and by readers. And don't even get me started on Cap's lack of any kind of empathy for Mutants.

    That said I still prefer Scott being with Jean over Emma. Don't get me wrong... under the right writer Scott and Emma's relationship is different and unique... but most writers seem to play her as Jean 2.0 amd I simply don't care for that. And while that's more bad writting than an actual character fault I still prefer Jean to Emma because it was my OTP before I even new there was a term for that. :lol 
     
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  2. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    I'm a big Cyclops fan as well. While I'm not totally opposed to all the development Cyclops has gotten in recent years - my issues with the later developments with Cyclops are actually my issues with Wolverine. Because Marvel has been pushing Wolverine as their biggest X-Men star - they have him, in a lot of situations, actually be the boy scout character that Cyclops was, and in effect, turn Cyclops into their Wolverine - the guy making the tough choices, the one willing to do the dirty work (or signing off/ordering people to do em like in X-Force), the one doing the end justifies the means kind of guy that Wolverine WAS and in effect effectively ruin the dynamic that used to be so effective in the X-Men comics.

    It's essentially the same as having Cap willing to do all sorts of end justifies the means things just to keep things going and having someone like Black Widow telling him not to, Superman with someone like Aquaman telling him not to, when it isn't in their core character to do so. This is part of why I hate how editorially mandated Marvel has been the last few years - with events driving everything and screw characterization with it - Civil War 1&2, AvX, Schism, etc.

    And to add, yeah forget Emma, Jean all the way :lol 
     
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  3. yodafett

    yodafett Well-Known Member

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    I've been saying this EXACT thing for a almost a decade. His growth WAS good. And was done RIGHT, for the most part, even if we don't always agree with him or like him. For those who read the stories, you can see why he did what he did.
     
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  4. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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  5. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Not all that is seen is truth. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Looked interesting until I saw Chibi Wolvie and Future Kamala. Don't get me wrong... I like Kamala, but damn if she isn't starting to get oversaturated.
     
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  6. GoLion

    GoLion Well-Known Member

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    Starting? Okay.

    I'll give it an issue or two as I loved Winnick's original run of the Exiles (also a huge fan of AOA Blink).
     
  7. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    Yeah the team doesn't look all that interesting. Of course - considering this is Exiles - there's always the chance for a switchout to a better one.

    It's nice that Marvel is trying to give it another chance. I loved the original Exiles book.
     
  8. Cool Hand Lube

    Cool Hand Lube Well-Known Member

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    Exiles Vol. 1 was excellent. And you know one of those characters (but not Blink) will eat shit in the first issue.
     
  9. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    I think vol 3 by Jeff Parker was good as well, he was really trying to set things up again after Claremont wrecked the Exiles at the end of vol 1 and vol 2, but they only gave him 6 issues.
     
  10. MatrixOfWumbo

    MatrixOfWumbo I see you

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  11. MatrixOfWumbo

    MatrixOfWumbo I see you

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    My take on Cyclops was that they should have committed one way or the other. He was obviously supposed to be the new Magneto, but then Bendis started writing him as this revolutionary, and then for a while it seemed like he was this tortured person failing to live up to the legacy of Magneto or Professor X (it didn't help that Magneto was part of a generally cool trend of making Marcel Villains sympathetic at the time) so it all just came out as a wet fart. Cyclops was supposed to be this dangerous loose cannon or something, but he just came across as a smug douche with nothing in particular to be smug about. Bendis also gave him the single cringeiest line I've ever read in a comic book.
     
  12. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    The problem I have with Jean, and by extension with her being always tied to Cyke, is that after Claremont she wasn't a very compelling character (and even in the Claremont era she wasn't the most interesting X-Man at all). She's trite and her Phoenix side is seriously overused. By now I'm vomiting it.

    Doesn't help that the way writers were using her was hurting for both Cyke and Logan portrayal. This triangle got old fast.

    I'm afraid they're going to retread everything bringing both old take on Scott and old Jean.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  13. BigPhill

    BigPhill Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was Rogue at first, until I read the article.
     
  14. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Cyclops pre-schism was some of the best character development of an A-list character in decades. He was legit becoming the leader that Xavier trained him to be, but can't have that cause...

    Bendis, who was that ultimate tipping point for pretty much the entire franchise going over the mountain price is right style.

    And adding to the pile of Cyclops was right, it was Tony Stark that was responsible for creating the Phoenix five in the first place.

    Can we just reboot the 616 universe to pre-AvX at minimum...pre-HoM at best.

    Edit: team Emma here. Jean was just too much "I'm mutant Mary Jane for my tastes." I like Emma owning who she was and the character growth she experienced because of her past.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  15. MatrixOfWumbo

    MatrixOfWumbo I see you

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    I was a never a Cyclops fan, but I can agree with this. Ioved Astonishing. And I think both sides were wrong (in typical superhero infighting fashion) because they barely utilized Rachel and her amazing affinity for the Phoenix.

    Also, you know, The Phoenix did kill Scott's wife. To someone without the audience's perspective Scott welcoming the Phoenix with open arms is kind of bad news.

    The further we get into the "RessureXIon," the harder it will be to do, but I think they could fix it with a big three-universe mashup that resets only the X-Men part of the universe.

    The normal universe, where Cyclops died... somehow. (Marvel seemed more interested in capitalizing on the irrational hatred for the Inhumans books than actually explaining it).

    A Utopian universe, where the X-Men still live in San Francisco and Magneto never turned good, dying before he could bring Kitty Pryde back from space.

    A dark universe, where Cyclops went fully evil and stopped the Final Incursion by destroying Ultimate Earth with the Phoenix Force.

    End with a four-way Cyclops fight where everybody has a different costume, they kill evil Cyclops, and everyone fuses with Young Cyclops Journey Into Mystery style, ending the O5's story.

    Then send the new Cyclops on vacation for God's sake so that the world can stop revolving around him for a month.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  16. GoLion

    GoLion Well-Known Member

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    When Bendis is good he is REALLY good. When he's bad... well, you end up with the current shitstorm. It's a shame really because I'm still a huge fan of his run on Ultimate Spider-man and the work he is doing with Miles is pretty good too.

    Frankly, I think the stories in the short term are going to be pretty terrible, but the outgrowth in the long term should be good.
     
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  17. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Can I also mention how badly written was Cap America in AvX?

    It was relatively smart when p.o.c Cage and Wilson were first to relate to mutants... But why was Steve suddenly acting in a way uncharacteristic for him?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  18. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    Yep Cap was written terribly. I can't imagine how all these great writers can't come up with better characterizations when writing these things. I'm sure editorial wants certain things done, but I can't imagine writing characters way off is one of the requirements unless the writers got so frustrated they phoned it in.
     
  19. GoLion

    GoLion Well-Known Member

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    It has to be editorial mandate. That's the only thing I can think of. Cause you're right, the current crop of writers at marvel is pretty damn good.
     
  20. NSJ23

    NSJ23 Binalternator Lover

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    Cap issue was good and it looks like the real Wolverine was searching for him. Prof X is back or just X is back. What's going on with magneto (if it is him) in the Resurrection of jean grey?
     
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