TF infiltration 3 discussion (some spoilers)

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Lumpy, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. Chrono Grimlock

    Chrono Grimlock Buttstuff Werewolf

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Posts:
    5,930
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +37
    I agree, I'm not sure what some people are seeing in this series. It's never taken this long for seomthing to happen in a TF series, or for characters to actually do something. To each their own though.
     
  2. Foster

    Foster Haslab Unicron Backer #10 Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Posts:
    33,048
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    422
    Likes:
    +2,855
    There's never been a TF comic series that has been this slow. G1 #1 ALONE had more happen in it.
     
  3. Denyer

    Denyer Shooty Dog Thing

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Posts:
    986
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +36
    http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2294
    http://seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?t=79828
    http://www.transfans.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5023
    http://tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?threadid=34381
    http://www.tfans.com/talk/index.php?showtopic=25451
    http://forums.idwpublishing.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=21;t=1125

    Maybe we're reading different places? Or do you mean net reaction here?

    Not everyone's a lover, but I recall DWG1 being a solid bitchfest in some places from the midpoint of the first mini onwards. For this new stuff, overall reaction seems positive.
     
  4. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Posts:
    34,127
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Likes:
    +3
    I strongly urge you to read the other posts in this thread, I can't be bothered typing it all out.
     
  5. Hiro Prime

    Hiro Prime Cybertronian Guru Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Posts:
    5,834
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Location:
    In a Transformers Museum
    Likes:
    +116
    Ebay:
    Like or not, doesn't really matter. Sales are the only thing that does. I was an editor for a small comic puplisher and I can tell you that the bottom line IS the bottom line. Will this new series take off? Who knows with the market the way it is today. If it can last until next year, then the movie hype should translate into more sales.

    And speaking of the movie, I'm more than willing to bet that this story is closer to what we'll see in the movie as a story than the G1 cartoon or comic. So if you're not liking this you probably won't like the movie either.

    I will say that if IDW continues to pump out 4+ covers an issue for every TF book, their sales will go down. It's special when done for a first issue, it's annoying when it's every issue. (and at $2.99 each, who'd want to buy them all?)

    And I don't think the fanwanks killed the DW books. That little shoulder of responsibility rests soully on the Lee Bros. It was their business and they dropped the ball. (and then tried to pass off everything on their artist and writers.)
     
  6. Superman_Alpha

    Superman_Alpha TF: Animated FTW!!!

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Posts:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +0
    Shouldn't be too hard to remember since virtually every other comic being published today is that exact same price. In fact, TFs is cheaper than the rest of IDW's line, which normally go for $3.99.
     
  7. PopCulturePooka

    PopCulturePooka Longest running avatar

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    6,630
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +926
    I mean non-TF fan boards.

    General comic boards.

    IF you even find a thread about it.
     
  8. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Posts:
    23,425
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +258
    really? what do non-tf fans think abt it?
     
  9. PopCulturePooka

    PopCulturePooka Longest running avatar

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    6,630
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +926
    Consensus seems to be passable story, shame about the part.
     
  10. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Posts:
    23,425
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +258
    to be fair, to the general public simon may appear as a hack, so yeah.

    i'm just surprised that what characterized hes older writing (besides the snappy dialogue: "time i wasnt here!" and funny sounds: "fnn! nnn!") is the quick pacing, which seems lacking in his new stuff, ever since TWW.

    some fellows at sgcollect commented: pace the mini series over 5 issues and tie loose ends in the 6th. and i tend to agree. which is what i liked abt 1 to 6 of DW vol 3. the snappy pace. even if u picked up one issue, it felt like a lot of things happened.
     
  11. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Posts:
    34,127
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Likes:
    +3
    Maybe there just isn't enough interest to warrant a comic?

    If so many people though the DW comic was perfect how come it still ended up down the pooper? Regardless of Pat "twit" Lee, the comic was losing sales month after month.

    And now we have a much more accessible, more refined, more true to the core idea of Transformers, Comic, it seems that the Fandom itself can't even decide if it's worth the time. Brushing the DW gushers to one side, there aren't so many people excited about it.

    What are IDW doing wrong? They certainly haven't blitzed the shit out of the internet fanbase trying to drum up excitement or sales. I remember when DW were getting ready you couldn't move for their promos, interviews, whatevers. Now? Not so much.

    On one hand you have fanwanky, the other, true to itself and nothing else. So whats going wrong? Is it just the case that the fandom now is too whiny and bitchy to actually give it a chance? Or is it just general apathy. Once bitten and all that. Or is it really a case of the product being delivered isn't up to par?

    I'm keeping my actual opinions on this to myself for now, but I'm interested in why people aren't willing to see it... no not see, accept it, as it's own thing and give it a chance. Damning it for rebooting continuity, for changing the DW direction, when clearly that was a failed venture, no matter how much I, or anyone else, liked it. Issue 3 and already the dissention has begun.
     
  12. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Posts:
    23,425
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +258
    maybe you're right abt there not being enough interest to pull off TF comics currently. its more abt hasbro dangling the comic license bait and making money off the licensing.

    i suppose other alternatives are:
    -annual mini series, 4-6 issues per year.
    -graphic novels which is more likely with the popularity of tpbk format.

    me? i'm just glad theres a current tf story going on even if below par/expectation. thats what keeps the love burnin'.

    besides the occasional witch hunts.
     
  13. Superman_Alpha

    Superman_Alpha TF: Animated FTW!!!

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Posts:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +0
    Transformers, GI Joe. These comics have the exact same problem that super hero comics have these days: no matter how popular the characters are to the general public, the only ones buying the comics are the fans who grew up with the characters. Marvel can't even give Spider-man comics away to the general public, even with the two movies making about a billion dollars worldwide. Nostalgia is the market for all of this material. And for the most part, nostalgia buyers want what they grew up with. Even if it's just an annual glimpse into their childhood.
     
  14. Lumpy

    Lumpy Taylor Swift Action Master Super Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    19,981
    News Credits:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +712
    im wondering what will happen with this series...and i wonder if this storm coming from IDW might not be their own style of war within....instead of a just a continuation...im hoping for that, and that the next arc after infiltration will pickup a little and have some action...
     
  15. Denyer

    Denyer Shooty Dog Thing

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Posts:
    986
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +36
    Insofar as a fair chunk of it is now leading up to thirty, and there's disillusionment in some quarters with the quantity of product appearing. In a time of plenty, following on from recent times of plenty, there's a lot to compare everything else with.

    Not that as a whole we aren't fractious anyway -- and the tendency is for historical revisionism. A lot of people who hated Beast Wars when it first appeared (and were teenagers when it came out) have since come onboard to that series. I certainly dislike Dreamwave more now than at the time, looking back at the wasted potential and how what they left us fits together. Others remember BW as something triumphantly shelved by RiD, or DW as being a landmark of some form --

    Dreamwave, by the time it folded, had built up a core readership that were happy with the fanservice, bright colours and routine fight scenes. Who didn't care that the first volume got retconned out, the second lacked resolution, the Sunstorm plot fizzled after the fight, etc. Who didn't think "Christ, not Unicron again." A company producing a different type of story isn't going to be of immediate appeal to some of those folks.

    The readers Dreamwave lost -- or were in the process of losing -- are a core for IDW. Meanwhile, the non-TF fan can only rate either series by things the other titles they read have in common with it. As a gross generalisation, if they like cape books, they're probably going to have more affinity for Dreamwave.

    Lastly (or at least heading towards wrapping this mini-spiel up) there's nostalgia versus having been around for ten, fifteen, twenty years. People who took a big break during that time are less likely to make the criticism that Dreamwave was recycling material. It was actually fresh to them, rather than an exercise in "this bit was nicked from here, that bit was put in there for marketing spin, hundreds of fanfic stories have already parroted TF:TM, etc."

    I think there'll be an injection of interest with a new film and trade paperbacks being an easier route into the series for adults. Even ongoing series I really enjoy (Planetary, Fables, etc) I tend to go for trades of these days, and Transformers (plus occasionals such as Fell) is the main thing I follow as issues.

    As for longterm, IDW have history of not doing cape books, handling licensed properties, etc. They seem more savvy than DW in that they recognise declared release dates matter, and they've gone over hurdles to do things such as keep recent material in circulation / negotiate for an artist tied by another contract. People who weren't won over by the preview or first couple of issues are turning up and professing a lot more interest -- it could be another Beast Wars in that regard.

    In the meantime I've been enjoying the main TF book and BW book since both appeared. I like TF more than BW -- for the simple reason we know where BW will end up and the story is just a case of getting there. We can be pretty sure Magmatron isn't going to win in any important sense, whilst over in the other title the Autobots have failed to save planets from complete colonisation. Earth probably isn't going to bite the big one, but there's still the sense that many unexpected things can happen.
     
  16. Chrono Grimlock

    Chrono Grimlock Buttstuff Werewolf

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Posts:
    5,930
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +37
    I don't want to quote the various posts because I'm lazy, but I really don't think it has to do with the fandom being bitchy. I think we all want a good story, and we all have different ideas of what makes a good story. I didn't think all Dreamwave G1 was perfect. I thought the first mini was terrible the only thing that kept me buying it after the shitfest first issue was the nostalgia factor. The second G1 mini was better, but still felt like almost 6 issues of nothing. The ongoing is where I fell in love with the DW G1 stuff.

    I don't see how a fan can be called whiny and bitchy when they lay out their money every month for something they want to like. I don't buy Transformer comics to complain; I'm not complaining about Beast Wars (which stars a bunch of characters I've never heard of but still manages to be a great read). I think this reboot is juat bad. And it has to do poor writing. Nothing happened in the first 3 to 4 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man and they still happened to be my favorite issues of Spider-Man in a decade. But that still didn't stop me from bitching over the death of Gwen Stacy. Ploping down my cash every month gives a right or reason to complain or compliment.

    Maybe if a new artist and or writer takes over during the second arc, I'll love it. As it is right now, with it's lack Prime or Megatron, terrible TF design and human characters running the show I can't stand it. I don't often complain on this board, I want to love this book. I spent $20 Canadian on 4 issues with 5 covers and I feel burned as a fan. Again though, not to be a gloomy gus all the time, I couldn't be happier with Beast Wars. :p 
     
  17. Xcandescent

    Xcandescent TRUKKS are the new MUNKYS

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Posts:
    2,478
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +234
    It was a snarky comment -- but given that it's a G1 reboot, and that Carly was the closest thing to a primary female human character (and hung out with Spike and BB), it wouldn't surprise me.

    Maybe not flawless, but a hell of a lot better looking than a hood chest.

    How does a "female" robot like Arcee make any sense whatsoever? :tongue: 

    It's been argued back and forth why female TF's exist at all, and what the hell "female" means with a species that can reproduce itself from spare parts. I don't know if it will be part of the new canon, but it's well established in old G1 and BW/BM, so they brought that one on themselves.

    Also possible. Though I wonder if BB changes his voice when he speaks through the girl-avatar.

    Of course, you could also argue that a 350Z pretending to be a police car isn't too stealthy. :wink: 

    -XCN-
     
  18. Denyer

    Denyer Shooty Dog Thing

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Posts:
    986
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +36
    I'm definitely in the "say no to pastel robots with chests designed to look like cleavage" camp -- on the other hand, I don't see why TFs wouldn't have robot modes that look superficially female, take a range of voices, mix pronouns, etc. There's no reason for them to look or sound male, except that boys generally react negatively to "girls" in a fiction line marketed to them.

    Besides, Magnus has man-nipples.

    It's in BW/BM... from the original continuity, as well as a lot of timelines in which Arcee doesn't seem to exist, there's the comics in which she's specifically designed as a PR exercise (Prime's Rib, #234) -- and it's emphasised TFs don't subcategorise by sexes.

    Yeah, presumably.

    The old series being crap doesn't mean a new one has to be, anyway. :) 
     
  19. Acid Wing

    Acid Wing Senior Alien TF Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Posts:
    4,584
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Likes:
    +61
    Personally, I'm willing to have some leeway as the book is like an "Ultimatized" version of Transformers.

    And I sincerely hope the series lives with IDW because I want the franchise to grow and expand beyond the already established fanbase. To me, Infiltration's story is so far doing well with setting things up and introducing new readers to what it means to be "robots in disguise."

    After all, to me I have the general feeling that TF comics among general comic consumers is not held in the same regard as staples such as DC's Batman or Marvel's Spiderman. There's still that stigma I feel present...but currently I think IDW is going in the right direction with how they're handling the TF franchise to slowly remove such a subpar status associated with the mythos. Of course, the upcoming movie will assist in that process, but what IDW is doing thus far can also definitely help.:) 
     
  20. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Posts:
    23,425
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +258
    i only got the issue and i must say its much better that you guys have been whining abt.

    yes it is paced out, but the the pacing allows a lot of subtle characterization that we have not seen before, in the more kid/action orientated mold of story telling.

    -i like that page where ironhide ominously mulls over contacting prime w/o prowls consent (think abt it, that and how he responded to ratchet, w/o dialogue the issue has managed to convey much abt IH as a brooding but loyal sort).
    -verity's hesitance at giving up the pocket PC.
    -the autobots ACTUALLY conflicted abt using native human participation. "hey, you kids wanna get involved in an age old intergalactic war? yeah! sure! why not!"

    heheh. i like how prowl scolded ratchet; "end of discussion!", and ratch's face was like "ooh, buuuurrrnnnn."