Teen not allowed to graduate over community service

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jorod74, May 28, 2009.

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  1. Boggs6ft7

    Boggs6ft7 TFW2005 Supporter

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    I wouldn't go as far as to say it has nothing to do with education, it is at very least related to social studies.

    Sports and a lot, but not all, clubs offer no real value to education, but they are still encouraged. Some schools even require an extra-curricular portion to graduate, be it sports, clubs, or in this case community service. The student's didn't have an option in this case, but I cannot see what they had to do damaging to to their character or out of line in developing better citizens.

    While the school I teach at does not require community service, I wish it did. It allows students to take ownership in their community and helps to eliminate entitlement.
     
  2. Tenebrouser

    Tenebrouser Craft...or is it crap?

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    I'd love to see the proof of this.
     
  3. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Most community service programs are almost exactly like Full internships except for usually a shorter period of commitment.

    Internship: Can be Paid or Unpaid, For Profit Organizations, usually long-term commitment
    Service Learning: Unpaid, Government or Not-For-Profit, usually short-term involvement

    Other than that, there is usually real work and real interaction with goals and documented progress and learning going on. It is not simply picking up garbage.

    So If your education system or institution participates in INTERNSHIPS there is a good chance that they are already doing 'community service' under an existing program. Lots of systems have mandatory internship programs through the requirement of TECH credits. Right now local schools here require 4 semesters of technology, usually 2 semesters of mandatory computer fundamentals. The other 2 semesters are anything from computer courses to Job training programs to internships many of which are organized via an Intern Coordinator that works with companies and not-for-profit organizations.

    It sounds like the issue is not with community service but people misconceptions of what these programs really are and what community service really is and how it is educationally applied and usually designed to help kids gain experience based upon their career focus or educational interests.
     
  4. grimlock1972

    grimlock1972 Optimus, serving up the primest of ribs since 1984

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    ill give you that point, but still feel it should be optional and up to the students if they wish to do community service as some may not do it as well as they could if forced into it, and many would get in the required hours get it properly signed off by the school and then would careless, I am all for students helping their community and encouraging them to do so , but in the end it has to be their choice not a requirement
     
  5. Maximum Burn

    Maximum Burn JETS AND HELI!! I LIKEY!

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    No. It's there. Just that after school, you could go next door and help and get your hours done quick. I got my hours by being an altar boy. Then they said the hours wasn't valid, so he changed it to clean up duty or whatever for the church and they cleared it.

    Also, in my public high school freshie year, they gave us a deal that all we had to do is write a letter for homework to thank the servicemen and we would score 10 hours of service.

    Seriously, it's friggin' easy.
     
  6. Darkwing48

    Darkwing48 Heroic Decepticon

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    I agree.

    By The Way, graduating with your fellow classmates is a matter of pride and its a privilege.

    If you think community service gives strength to ones character, that means that you haven't watch an ep of "The Simple Life"
     
  7. Boggs6ft7

    Boggs6ft7 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Ask and you shall receive.

    http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/WorkingPapers/WP33Billig.pdf

    The important part is only about four and a half pages. Here are some key points:

     
  8. Boggs6ft7

    Boggs6ft7 TFW2005 Supporter

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    In my other post I already listed the benefits of community service, so I won't repeat them here. I just feel that character development is just as important to students as math, science, english, etc... Community service is a good option to help in development of character, are there others? Yes, such as sports and other extracurriculars. I wouldn't mind meeting in the middle and just say tha the student needs to complete so many extracurricular credits, be it sports, clubs, or community service as all of those can have an impact on someone's character and they would have the choice of which ones they would participate. I think that it would be fair to require student to participate in something before they graduate that is not directly related to academics.
     
  9. Spekkio

    Spekkio Master of War

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    If you say so. I wouldn't have gone through with all the pomp and circumstance if it were solely up to me. Sadly, my family guilt-tripped me into doing it both times and will probably do so again if and when I finish graduate school. And I still haven't forgiven my parents for that horrific graduation party after finishing my undergrad.

    And as far as I'm concerned, all that pomp and circumstance is a really bad idea - building up egos and filling the kids' heads with all sorts of lies, half-truths and nonsense. Y'know what I'm talking about - "you can do anything if you put your mind to it," "the American Dream™," "you're special," "you've accomplished something," "you have a bright future," etc, etc, etc. What a bunch of heroic nonsense.

    In any event, I wasn't required to do any community service in high school, nor to gain entry to any post-secondary institution. I find the idea of requiring it offensive - it's not volunteer work if you have no choice in the matter. What if the kids have too many demands on their time or more important things to do? (When my mother was in school, she did work for her father's bar after school, for example.)

    I also find the idea of requiring service of the parents offensive. I know that if my school district had required my parents to volunteer, the school district would end up getting an earful from my father. (They curled up in a ball and died when he found out that I was being taken out of computer class in 5th grade for remedial gym classes. He's a scary guy.) I don't know about yinz, but my parents had better things to do than volunteer to work at the school - working two jobs (dad) or working and studying to upgrade from LPN to RN (mom).

    Now, on the other hand, someone suggested that national policy re: community service may change with the new Administration. I would point out that said change will include giving those kids who complete X amount of service will earn scholarships for their college education. In other words, they'll be compensated for their service. *That* I don't mind a bit.

    And last point - my understanding is that high school kids these days tend to do too much, not too little. They have too many activities, service projects, clubs, etc, plus homework and housework. Studies are showing that teens aren't getting enough sleep and it's impeding their neurological development. In our efforts to prepare kids for the "real world," (which I argue we're not really doing - if we were, they'd be a lot more miserable) we're actually doing them a disservice.
     
  10. Lord Megatron

    Lord Megatron FFFF

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    I don't remember taking any citizenship test or needing community service to graduate high school, or even get into college.

    According to ncklesch, I must live in Bumfuck, Nowhere, USA.


    Relating to the topic, a lot of kids actually not like me, with excessive spare time. They do sports, have clubs, homework, etc. Requiring community service and such is squeezing what little time they have to themselves out of existence. And sometime, someone is going to snap under all the pressure.
     
  11. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Already happened, dude. Why do you think things like Columbine happen?
     
  12. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    I fail to see where you get the idea that Community Service = Volunteerisim. They are two different things. They are not being asked to volunteer, they are being required to be educated through service learning, Through organized activities that teach skills and experiences not obtainable through a classroom education. Technology is not optional, Health and physical activity are not optional and now for many students Community Service or "service Learning" is not optional. Not everyone was forced to take gym or technology, and as years of studies continue to refine our educational system it may surprise you that kids today are given more education and opportunity than what you were given however many years ago.

    And this 'kids have too many demands' is hogwash. Your mother worked after school? so did I, but I am sure that in this kid's 4 years of a highschool education she was capable of doing 12 hours of community service. Not doing that is flat out laziness and there is no such thing as a valid excuse of not having time especially since such programs are accompanied by coordinators that facilitate around special situations like child care and employment obligations. Kids have plenty of time, school is not hard and it isn't like Life becomes a grand picnic you complete High school. Even after college, anyone with a lifetime commitment to education and personal growth, life 'stays' hard and you are always going to be busy and growing unless you have found a way to be educated on a jobskill once then do that job for 30 years with no change and then retire with a full pension. So I am not sure where this idea that KIDS are overworked and somehow when they grow up like life will become 'less' work?

    All I see is people who feel 'community service' is for poor ignorant criminals who have some real misconceptions on what these programs are all about and are just making excuses for these poor hypothetical busy kids to make themselves feel better.

    Are you sure about that? What US state do you live in?

    http://mb2.ecs.org/reports/Report.aspx?id=115

    Most states have mandatory requirements for Civics written into their state Constitution, almost all of them with some form of standardized test. And they do this in 10th grade usually along with any state reading or Math assessments. I suspect you did take a semester of civics and a citizenship test as part of that course if you went to school in the united states.

    Depending how long you have been out of school you may even find your local schoolboard has instituted a service learning requirement since you graduated.
     
  13. DestronGenerals

    DestronGenerals Well-Known Member

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    What?

    Columbine happened because those kids were picked on every day by popular social cliques, who maybe if they were required to do some community service, they may have learned the sort of empathy and character that could have avoided this. Let's face it, there may be some values that can be learned from sports, but how often do those positive aspects shine through?

    Also, the kids that committed it were said to suffer from psychosis and depression and had time to make custom DOOM maps and set the whole thing up. Maybe if they were required to do community service they would've had less time to set this up and maybe could've been discovered before they could go through with it.

    It had nothing to do with them cracking under pressure because they had too much to do.

    nkelsch is right. If you can't figure out how to do 12 hours of community service, that is laziness.

    In my high school, 60 hours were required for graduation and 1) There are plenty of community service activities take place on saturday and sunday morning which don't have to interfere with sports or work and most of these organizers welcome all the help they can get and are flexible with time schedules 2) Many kids I knew had jobs and and had no problem fulfilling the requirement and MOST of us, including myself, continued the service far beyond the required 60 hours because its not only valuable time spent, but also educational.
     
  14. Mumps

    Mumps <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and

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    My High School required 90 hours of Community Service to graduate. But then again it was a catholic highschool, and it was assigned to us through the religion class... And I live in Canada.

    I did most of my time at the Boys and Girls club voulenteering, helping kids with crafts, games, reading stories and whatnot.

    Before I did the community service, I thought it was such a waste of time. When I finished, I was really glad I had done it. And I continued for a year afterwords, until I went to college and had no time for that anymore >_<
     
  15. cheetorBWORG

    cheetorBWORG Cheetor Fan

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    Required Volunteer work is an oxymoron.

    But anyways, the title is misleading. She only missed the ceremony because of missing those 12 hours of "outside school" community work. She got her diploma the next day.

    And those citizenship tests? More like brainwashing nationalism into the sheep of America.
     
  16. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Really? So how come kids have been bullied at school for as long as school has existed, but it's only recently that these school massacres are happening? For that matter, why aren't they happening in the UK? Kids are getting picked on here, and yet we haven't (yet) had one of these tragedies that I can remember.

    Then again, we are getting kids cracking up and committing suicide under the stress, so maybe we're just a little behind you on that one.
     
  17. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Shenanigans... You are telling me Canada doesn't teach civics and Canadian history as part of their public school education? I know for a fact they do. Are they brainwashing your population into the sheep of Canada? And Canada has Citizenship tests for people immigrating to Canada that requires you to swear loyalty and a full understanding of the Canadian government and all of the civics that go with it.

    Civics is necessary so people know how their government actually works. It is pretty hard to be a citizen of a form of government without knowing how it works in relationship to you personally.

    So I am going to have to chalk your statements up to "chest-thumping, Anti-Americanism".
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
  18. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    :sly2:  Alrighty then.
     
  19. BenPrince

    BenPrince Banned

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    So much posturing and internet cock waving over an issue no one should care about...

    Oh and Knecnshkles, we get it: You know it all and you are superior to everyone...

    We get it, guy.
     
  20. DestronGenerals

    DestronGenerals Well-Known Member

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    It only takes one (or two in this case) suffering from psychosis to set a precedent making it okay for kids that in similar situations see that if they did it in Colorado then the kids picking on them at their school deserve the same punishment for their grief.

    The Virginia Tech shootings, the other more serious situation was also committed by someone declared mentally ill. So, all this bullying never produced any massacres but since a few crazy people did it, it now becomes an option to other kids that are suffering from depression, mental illness, or maybe just had a rough time in school.

    It still has little to do with cracking from pressure. That's when, like you said, suicide comes up. On that point, I could make another argument for community service where kids that think they have it hard could be shown how the homeless or other marginalized people are living.

    oops, guess I did.
     
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