Tarn, is that it ?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Lightningsonic, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. Lightningsonic

    Lightningsonic Well-Known Member

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    Talking about how anyone treat Megatron. Doesn't it seem weird how only Meg get a court ? Why just him be guilty ?
    It would be normal (a bit more normal )if i not read the whole RID. But in RID, It always about "there are no bot and con". The autobot even let the con live among them, The Nails treat bot and con equal as war scum. The Con as civilian stand up for Meg. Then how come anybody else can walk free ? Like no one suspect a thing ? If Meg get judge, then they would consider to judge at least some other big name con
    This again remind me
    in the Wrecker's storyline. There are a judge system, They can use the corrupts card to explain it some how. by said Prowl can interfere and replace the system code. and make anyone be guilty or innocent as he like. I am not sure but the lack of this system role in the majorty of TF seem quite big
     
  2. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    I actually love genre writing that also shows an awareness of more complex analogies and symbolism. I think Roberts slipped in little asides at times that suggested where some of his ideas came from, and it was often quite fascinating. I appreciate sophistication...

    ...but NOT when it comes at the cost of the story being told. It needs to be an added layer, which is adequately supported by an effective story framework. When narrative settings just feel like transparent props for making a statement or telling a symbolic story, it's usually at that point that real artistry dies. The explicit and implicit narratives need to coalesce into something greater than the sum of its parts.

    I think we can agree that IDW really rushed the whole Megatron redemption thing, and left a lot of logical holes. :/

    zmog
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  3. raindance773

    raindance773 Well-Known Member

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    Megatron's trial went down like it did for a couple of reasons.

    1. Chief Justice Tyrest was MIA, and when last seen he'd been drilling little holes into himself. Not necessarily the most stable of Cybertronians, and not someone you want judging war crimes, especially if he started rambling on about forged vs constructed cold. The last thing you would want is for the judge to start conversing with himself (and replying) during the trial.

    2. The Functionist Council is dead (not a bad thing), so they can't judge anyone (and you wouldn't want them to anyway).

    3. Most of the Senate is dead, and of the surviving Senators we know of (Crosscut, Ratbat, and Shockwave) were aligned on either side, so they aren't impartial. Dai Atlas was also alive, but he was wrapped up with the Circle of Light and Star Saber around the same time, but he isn't exactly impartial as he was a NAIL.

    4. Most of this is from Autocracy trilogy, but after the fall of the Senate, Optimus tried to create a more representative style of government. He first came up with the Grand Convocation, which was comprised of OP himself (as Sentinel Prime is dead at this point), Xaaron, Dai Atlas (again), Bulkhead (woohoo for shoutouts to cartoons!), Slinger (an OOC for the original NAILs), Traachon (G1 Marvel UK throwback), and Tomaandi (also a G1 Marvel UK throwback). They lasted only a short time because Scorponok destroys Cybertron's last major energon reserves, and the group breaks up. Since everyone in this group sided with the Autobots or NAILs, and the group itself was rather ineffective, they aren't reassembled to judge Megs. Eventually OP replaces them with the Conclave of Representatives and the Stratocracy (neither of which has any known surviving members as both groups were slaughtered by Megatron on his return to Cybertron from Junkion). We don't know how many of the Grand Convocation survive to the end of the war either (I think it's just OP, Bulkhead, Xaaron, and Dai Atlas, but I could be wrong), but they aren't reassembled to judge Megatron.

    5. Boltax doesn't exist in IDW, making OP the closest thing to a religious and political leader left. That why at the trial he dons the same three pronged crown Tyrest wore as Chief Justice. In a stroke of wisdom (and I actually agree with this part), OP decides to try JUST Megatron, and not Shockwave, Starscream, Soundwave, and the rest because he wants the war to be done. And the NAILs don't really seem to care about justice - they are upset their planet has been destroyed, and they don't really care about who caused it. The NAILs come across as pretty haughty in that they don't really care about uncovering the truth either, or about justice. They hate Autobots and Decepticons equally, don't really care about the past, accept none of the responsibility for the war, and pass all the blame off on others. The NAILs are rather annoying in that way because their species is trapped in a global and interstellar conflict that kills trillions, and yet they play the victim card.

    So, by trying just Megatron, OP avoids having to essentially execute every Decepticon. He can at least start moving towards peace and healing. And remember, most Transformers are dead at this point. There isn't enough populace left to keep going if they don't stop killing one another. Even better, when Megatron asks to be tried by the Knights of Cybertron, OP can ship him off world. By doing so, he not only avoids making Megs a martyr, but he also avoids sticking Megatron around all of his biggest supports who may or may not bring out the worst in him and could potentially fill his head with ideas of restarting the war. Now, was HOW OP got rid of Megs (via the Lost Light and that insanity) a bit of a cop out? Absolutely, and I would argue Prime didn't fulfill his responsibilities as Prime, but that was during IDW's angsty "all is morally relative phase," so take it with a grain of salt. That OP made Megs co-captain instead of just ripping out his spark is beyond me, but there you go.
     
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  4. Lightningsonic

    Lightningsonic Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why Dai Atlas is not impartial as nail. That should make him more impartial than any one they got. He is not part of the conflict, no emotion involve.
    And most of this point is flawed since it make sense for who ? the reader ? the autobot them self ?
    is not just the Nails, We have Bot and Con too. There would be a bunch of Bot who would point out some as guilty crime con. There also con who believe Meg as hero. Just the con happen to be in the scene where Meg comeback, there already a bunch stand up for him. There would be a lot question they can play
    Now why would they accept the old system to judge, seem so on Bot favor ? People chase all bot and con (who keep their badge) away, starscream be the leader "by the will of people". So the The Functionist Council won't be the system they truth. I mean, this is exactly the card Megatron used and end the whole
     
  5. Bumblemus Prime

    Bumblemus Prime Cracked in the head

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    I'm one who liked Roberts' writing to the end, but S2 and LL/S3 are too reliant on Dr. Who-style convoluted plot twists and handwavium. Also, he does a lot of callbacks to deep continuity. Thunderclash's callbacks to his profile were an example of it working great. I didn't know about his OTT profile until after he was introduced in the series but I loved how it worked in the series. The black hole power was an example where it was divisive.

    I think Megatron's black hole power was a little unearned, to be fair, and Roberts coasted a little bit on our "oh shit, deep 1984!" reactions. That said, I felt a real sense of power and completion at the end of Dying of the Light. Megatron's arc was really fulfilling, and the ambiguity of Ravage's last words--"don't change back"--that was great.

    Shoot, for all the division over Roberts' later run, we're still talking about it a year and a half later. I don't remember this kind of debate going on over any previous comic stories--maybe AHM, but that was over-focused on how IDW sabotaged the -ations.

    The problem is, we all want more DJD, Rung, maybe even Froid & Sunder, but we don't know if Hasbro will take the steps to incorporate the Roberts headcanon. So I was satisfied with the DJD's end in IDW1--IF I could get different interpretations of the characters. I'd love to see a Regeneration One-style version of the Aligned Continuity that worked in a Prime-DJD. Hell, let's do Animated Season 4 while we're at it.
     
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  6. Rojixus

    Rojixus WE. ARE NOT. THE DECEPTICONS!!

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    To paraphrase Shakespeare, the shitty parts of IDW2005 live after it while the good parts are interred with its bones.

    Like hell I do! The sooner Transformers is purged of Roberts's "contributions", the better.
     
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  7. Lightningsonic

    Lightningsonic Well-Known Member

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    What sabotaged the -ations exactly ?
     
  8. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    lolNOPE.

    I'd rather slit my throat open. With a blunt bagel.
     
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  9. Bumblemus Prime

    Bumblemus Prime Cracked in the head

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    Furman was sowing what would be another ongoing or a mini that had the working title "Expansion" that would be about the war against the Dead Universe. He talked about it through 2006. You have to thread-dive a bit to find him talk about it, as it mostly appeared in the print editions of the -ations, but here's a comment that references Expansion and Simon's answer a few posts downthread. When sales on the -ations were low, they cut it down to four Spotlights and Maximum Dinobots. So that might be why Revelations reads a bit rushed on the Nemesis Prime stuff.
     
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  10. raindance773

    raindance773 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a graphic and terrible way to die.