Surprised nobody talked about this

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by UltraAlanMagnus, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. primal789

    primal789 Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Posts:
    4,488
    News Credits:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +1,605
    @Nathanoraptor They spent a lot of money to even advertize TLK and it made the least amount of money.Paramount was very confident apparently but it is what it is I don't know..I wonder if it's true that the movies would follow the same direction if TLK was a hit.
     
  2. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Simple, really; they'd had an awful 2016. In that year, they'd had a number of high-profile flops; Star Trek Beyond, Ben-Hur, Zoolander 2, Silence, Fences, Allied and TMNT: Out of the Shadows. These flopped so badly that the losses to the studio were estimated as being $455 million; their worst loss in twelve years. So, they decided to hype the living crap of TLK, in hope that'd get them out of the slump. They failed. Badly.
     
  3. primal789

    primal789 Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Posts:
    4,488
    News Credits:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +1,605
    Oh and also TMNT is getting a reboot after that flop.The TF movie we were gonna get for 2019..I think it was supposed to be the prequel since the VII logo had an Autobot logo made a bit too War For Cybertron when they first announced the original release date for TLK,Bumblebee and this one but I could be wrong about this one,it's speculation.Either way their public reason for it being canceled was to focus on the home release of Bumblebee but everyone is aware more or less of what happened.I believe making the next movie a Bumblebee 2 would be a mistake unless it's just the name and it will be totally different because Bumblebee worked because it was one movie but it won't work twice..it's just something that a first movie would do or prequel and this worked..it was great but even this time some felt like a "been there,done that" situation.Personally that's what I believe..it was wonderful and I definitely want to see even some human characters from Bumblebee in a future film but let's do something to keep it just a bit fresh to mentain interest..just a bit more fresh,not extremely much.
     
  4. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    To be honest, I'd actually be fine with Bumblebee as a stand-alone. Just because something's good doesn't mean it has to have a sequel.

    For example, Trollhunter is a brilliant movie, but it hasn't got a sequel because it doesn't need one; the film ended on a high.
     
  5. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Posts:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    32
    Likes:
    +20
    The Bayformers and recent DC films are both equally overblown messes.

    On another personal note, I think they don't need to make at least another after Bumblebee, one tolerable film is good enough.
     
  6. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    You're clearly biased.
    Whether or not I enjoyed TLK more than Valerian, Valerian actually made sense. They're both awful movies, but TLK is definitely worse objectively.
    Look at behind the scenes of how Michael Bay directs and you'll see why he's both a bad director and, cynically, the exact director Paramount would want for a blockbuster.
    But yes, Lorenzo di Bonaventura and Paramount made mistakes, but you can see they are actively trying to undo their crimes.
     
  7. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Not really; they're both as bad as each other, but in different ways.

    TLK had a confusing, incoherent plot, narrative arcs that went nowhere and too many unnecessary characters. It also ran on for too long; it's one of the most exhausting films I've ever watched. It's the first film I ever saw in which I was checking my watch to see how long it had left to go.

    Valerian was just dull; Dane DeHaan shows he has no comprehension of human facial expressions and Cara Delevigne sounds like she's being forced to read the lines at gunpoint. They had no chemistry with each other and the other actors (with the exception of John Goodman and, surprisingly, Rhianna) were clearly making absolutely no effort.

    Well, it was Lorenzo and Paramount who screwed over TLK in the first place; Lorenzo had the idea for the writer's room and Paramount wanted a "cinematic universe". Lorenzo also had the idea to combine three different story ideas, which was what led to TLK having such an confusing plot. If Ehren Kruger had been kept as screenwriter, this wouldn't have happened.

    I'm curious, what do you mean by "undo their crimes"?

    Spielberg, Lorenzo and Paramount did not fire Michael Bay after TLK bombed, if that's what you're thinking. Bay is still involved in the franchise; he was a producer on Bumblebee and his production company "Bay Films" appears very prominently in the credits.
     
  8. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    By undo their crimes, I mean do better than they did before.
     
  9. Sablebot

    Sablebot Autobot Media Scientist

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Posts:
    806
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +297
    Or maggot-ridden rotting grapes. . .
     
  10. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    I only listen to other people's opinions about films when they have the evidence to back it up. For example, I think Suicide Squad is a good film because of the chemistry between the actors, the humour in which they imbued their performances with and the fact it cheerfully accepted the inherent quirkiness of its premise. But I found Enchantress a boring villain and an inappropriate choice for the film and I found the portrayal of Joker and Harley's relationship uncomfortable (my sister, who went to see it with me, actually winced).

    When I mentioned my recent attempt to rewatch ROTF, which I terminated prematurely and watched the infinitely superior Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them instead, someone said that ROTF was way better than Fantastic Beasts, without any evidence.

    Anyone who seriously claims that ROTF was better than Fantastic Beasts in any way is not a discerning viewer and their opinion on film should not be taken seriously. Full stop.
     
  11. primal789

    primal789 Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Posts:
    4,488
    News Credits:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +1,605
    People literally can "seriously" like everything they want...it's their opinion and it doesn't even need justification.The problem comes when someone claims their opinion is fact and other opinions are not equal to theirs and inferior.It doesn't work that way..your standards are not worldwide or anything and even if they were..the only inferior opinion is the one that claims everyone else's is inferior and theirs is fact.Facts need arguments and proof to be legit but opinions on the other hand do not!
     
  12. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Let's be clear here, it is Bay, Spielberg et al who are improving things, not Paramount; generally, when things in a film franchise start improving, it is the creative team who are responsible for the improvements, not the studio.

    If it weren't for TLK bombing, Lorenzo and Paramount would have run the franchise into the dirt.
     
  13. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    Right, Bumblebee was a trademark Bay movie.
    You're probably unfamiliar with Travis Knight.
    Give his other films or productions a go.
     
  14. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    I know Travis Knight directed Bumblebee. I am familiar with the other film he directed (Kubo and the Two Strings) and the production company he is associated with (Laika).

    However, Michael Bay was a producer on Bumblebee and his production company "Bay Films" appears very prominently in the credits.
     
  15. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    Production companies give orders of service and are financial stakeholders in a film. Do you know how films are made?
     
  16. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Yes, I do; I also know what the role of a producer is.

    The producer's job is to (obviously) oversee the production of a film. Producers plan and coordinate various aspects of film production, such as coordinating writing, directing, and editing; and arranging financing. The producer also supervises the pre-production, production, and post-production stages of filmmaking, including hiring the director and other key crew members. Whereas the director makes the creative decisions during the production, the producer typically manages the logistics and business operations, though some directors also produce their own films. The producer is tasked with making sure the film is delivered on time and within budget, and has the final say on creative decisions. Finally, the producer will oversee the marketing and distribution.

    That was Michael Bay's job on Bumblebee; he was involved in the film. It is a common misconception that he was not involved in the film in any way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 4:58 AM
  17. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    "Whereas the director makes the creative decisions during the production, the producer typically manages the logistics and business operations." Looks like you didn't read what you copied from, because not only is that exactly what I said, but you're a really slow person. They can stamp things off, but they never actually control the art form.
     
  18. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Hi, @JohnStartop.

    If the tone I used when I was writing my comments was your issue, I shall wholeheartedly apologise for any offence I may have caused you.

    It was not my intention to make anyone feel in any way deficient; I have been treated with condescension enough in my life and I would never wish it upon others. I have deleted most of my previous comments, and edited others to remove any rudeness.

    After giving it a lot of thought, I sincerely wish to make amends with you and I hope you will accept my sincerest apology. :) 
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    Hey, it's just a message board. You don't need to apologize to a stranger. For that matter, I was a bit harsh and I also apologize.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Thank you.