Surprised nobody talked about this

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by UltraAlanMagnus, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Are you going to speak a recognisable dialect of English at some point?

    DeHaan has hype behind him, buggered if I know where its coming from though. Carla was no worse for me than either Megan Fox or Rosie Huntington-Whitely.

    Yeah you've explained twice your thoughts on this; I don't get why you're mentioning them at all. You didn't like them; so what?
     
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  2. AutobotStrider

    AutobotStrider Well-Known Member

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    She’s Peeled.
     
  3. AutobotStrider

    AutobotStrider Well-Known Member

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    Doin’ a number
     
  4. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Everyone's got their opinions, but not all opinions are equal. Some are flat out wrong.

    Anyone trying to make even a shade of a statement that TLK had anything better than the Wonder Woman instantly marks themselves as to not take their opinion seriously. Now and ever.


    Valerian is a weak movie, though. They took a campy fun adventure comic and made it into a visually overblown snoozefest. It deserved to fail.


    Nothing of it changes TLK pitiful, miserable condition. No matter the arguments, the audience voted this movie out with their wallets. It bombed commercially because it simply deserved no better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  5. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of a Redeemer award & Bumblebee certainly deserves it. If it hadn’t been as good as it was, there’s a good chance that Transformers movies would have gone on hiatus for a long while.
     
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  6. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    To be honest? Wonder Woman wasn't a great movie; to be honest, I liked Justice League better. It's an alright film, but it did not deserve the praise it got. I don't get why people were (and, sadly, still are) raving about it.
     
  7. AutobotStrider

    AutobotStrider Well-Known Member

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    I love DC but I enjoyed TLK more. I'd sooner watch TLK than Wonder Woman and I think Gal is a great Wonder Woman. Great way to debate lol.
     
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  8. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say TLK was better than Wonder Woman; TLK wasn't a good movie, although, in my view, it was, at least, enjoyable in some parts.

    However, Wonder Woman was not better than most of the DC movies; to be honest, I liked Suicide Squad better than Wonder Woman. I still don't get why everyone liked Wonder Woman so much.
     
  9. AutobotStrider

    AutobotStrider Well-Known Member

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    I would say it was better in some parts to be honest there was more I liked about TLK than Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman falls into the Black Panther category of overblown because of the PC nature of today. Wonder Woman is revered because it's a female lead and a female hero, even though we've had Ripley and Sarah Connor. However Wonder Woman goes against the current grain of let's say Rey from Star Wars which I can get behind. If you're written like Diana you've a strong solid basis but if you're written like Rey it comes off really bad. Wonder Woman as a movie was very inclusive and it didn't bash but showed off the talent of the character, the actress, the actors, the writers and director. Black Panther was only revered the way it was because of the cast because ultimately it's a terrible film about an exceptional character imo.

    A big factor in the success of Wonder Woman was likeability and modesty. Take a look at Captain Marvel and Brie Larson, that's getting the opposite reaction for the most part.

    For me DC movies go :
    BVS
    MOS
    Aquaman
    Justice League
    Wonder Woman
    Suicide Squad
     
  10. Murasame

    Murasame We like to talk big, vampires do

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    The movie was awesome and lot better than tlk
     
  11. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    Wonder Woman
    was an alright film, but it's not "the greatest DC film ever" as people like to claim. Again, Justice League was far superior to Wonder Woman.

    With Wonder Woman, I find, no-one's ever been able to convincingly articulate why it deserved the praise it got. Could someone please tell me why Wonder Woman was considered a masterpiece and Justice League was considered a disappointment?
     
  12. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee I must be some kind of nut...

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    If any franchise deserves to win an award like this, it's Transformers for Bumblebee. I'll admit I have a soft spot for the first three live-action Transformers movies because I grew up with them, same for people who grew up with the G1 cartoon. It might not hold up as well as we'd like to think, but I still get a nostalgic kick out of the first movie. That said... the first movie really is the only Bay Transformers film which I feel can be defended as truly approaching "good". It has a solid story with subplots that at the very least try to be relevant, and iconic and memorable moments. However, ROTF onward, there are subplots that exist for no reason other than to pad out the movies (what was the point of Sam's college life or Sam's job hunt running as long as they did?), the heroes become more and more unlikable (Optimus is a face-ripping psychopath, Cade is abrasive and unpleasant to literally every other human being he interacts with... ironically, by TLK, Bumblebee's the only one who I could still kind of root for, and part of that's bias), character development simply doesn't exist (they try with the main male human protagonists in each movie and with Optimus Prime in AOE and TLK, but they haven't really been changed or improved by their experiences at the end of each film) the villains increasingly more pathetic and inconsequential (four or five new Decepticons introduced in TLK, all of them definitively dead by the end of the film, not counting the Infernocons), and the films continually ignore any backstory set up in the previous films.

    By contrast, Bumblebee has protagonists who are flawed, still decent, likable, and/or sympathetic people. Bumblebee has antagonists who have personality, presence, and a level of menace to them. Bumblebee has a story that is coherent and easy to follow. Bumblebee has character development, both to Charlie who comes to terms with the death of her father, and for Bumblebee, who regains his identity and his voice (in a way). It probably wasn't as groundbreaking or perfect as it felt when I was watching it in theaters, but it was competently made and put together, and from the reactions I've seen to it, it was exactly what the Transformers franchise needed to gain back good will and public interest.

    But that's just my opinion. The fact of the matter is that AOE only made as much money as it did because of the international audience, and The Last Knight bombed hard, not even being able to fall back on the Chinese market like it's predecessor. The fact is that the movies have been almost universally critically panned since Revenge of the Fallen. The facts seem to point to the general audience finally being exhausted with Michael Bay's Transformers, and Travis Knight's Bumblebee winning back the interest of the average moviegoer. If you liked the Bay Transformers films and hated Avatar and Wonder Woman, then fine, that's your opinion. However, there's every indication that the majority opinion is that Bumblebee is the exact refresh that the Transformers film franchise needed to get back on its feet.
     
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  13. Terrellatron

    Terrellatron REPAIR REPAIR REPAIR

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    A skiddle skadoodle it's a joke doodle
     
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  14. AutobotStrider

    AutobotStrider Well-Known Member

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    Largely to do with Superman's rushed/reshot return, the scrapping of a majority of threads Snyder had laid out and the Adam West type portrayal of Batman and the alterations to him when he was perfect in BVS and set to be perfect before Whedon came on board.

    Wonder Woman stuck to Snyder's vision, Justice League did not. I accept and support that different characters should be tonally different but they made it clear that Whedon destroyed the movie from everything said pre and post release.
     
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  15. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    Valerian was just dull in my view. Dane deHaan was proving he has no comprehension of human facial expressions and Cara Delevigne sounded like she was being forced to read the lines at gunpoint. It looked pretty, but it just wasn't fun; and that's a bad thing.
     
  16. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    I agree plus I enjoyed Suicide Squad and TLK way more than that..and more than Wonder Woman wich I didn't find interesting or moving at all.Of course I'm not saying they were the way I saw them,don't wanna diss them the way some fans do but to me it's the way you said...I think Valerian wasn't mean to be much in the first place so I didn't care I was like okay,cool..nice movie with creatures and space..next!
     
  17. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    I liked Suicide Squad for the same reasons I liked Deadpool; it was a movie that knew its premise was bonkers and decided to have fun with that fact. TLK, on the other hand, I just found exhausting; it was the first movie I've ever watched where I kept on checking my watch to see how long it had to go. There were enjoyable moments, but they were all part of a very empty film.

    I found Wonder Woman very moving for what it was; I cried out loud in the cinema when Steve Trevor died and Gal Gadot is a brilliant actress. It was simply that it didn't do enough of what I enjoyed about Wonder Woman; all the weird Greek mythology stuff from the comics. However, it was still better than a lot of the films that were on that summer, and to be honest, it's nice having an Oscar-winning director helm a supehero movie.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  18. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    To me it did nothing because I wasn't invested enough so a sad moment isn't too sad if it's just a momet but again I'm just one man.For Suicide Squad..I like what they did with this idea of outkasts and stuff that saved the world and the dialogue in my opinion it was clever and most of all it's somthing different and it's something that not everyone would like or understand much wich is my cup of tea so to speak.I thought TLK moved very fast..very fast paced compared to AOE wich established the humans and all that,AOE is the longest of them all so it's only natural but just saying.TLK wasn't exactly what I wanted but for what it was I enjoyed it a lot although the action is weak in this movie and some scenes under water went for quite some time but other than that no complaints on my part.
     
  19. JLvatron

    JLvatron Transformer

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    I found TLK among the better Bayformers films, including Bumblebee.


    Good point, Bay adds so much garbage into a movie.
    I do agree he does not have sole responsibility on making Transformers bad, and di Bonaventura is very to blame. And Travis "the last" Knight is equally on that list.

    I found it had the best plot in all 6 Bayformers. The most epic for the main character (Sam).

    I find this for awards & reviews in general. BumbleBee and Aquaman are rated both rated 7.7 by a national cinema website. I saw Bumblebee & my friends saw Aqua, and we'd all give them half that score.

    Also, the original Transformers movie was rated a bomb in my local newspaper.
    That tells you how these reviewers (and Oscars) can be completely out to lunch at times.
     
  20. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't the worst film that year (that would go to the goddamn Emoji Movie), but it was not a "good" film by any stretch of the imagination. I found Spiderman; Homecoming, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 and Wonder Woman far more enjoyable, because they had more coherent plots, better written characters and more genuinely emotional moments.

    Whilst I think we agree on the Lorenzo part, I do not agree that Travis Knight belongs on that list; it was his direction that made Bumblebee a pretty good movie. And it was precisely what the franchise needed to reinvigorate itself.

    It doesn't. It really, really doesn't. The plot has contrivances that don't make sense and has too many subplots which don't make sense, weighing the story down overall. Plot-wise, it's probably the worst of the bunch.

    IMDB's rating system does not work the same way as Rotten Tomatoes does; they're based on audience reviews sent by the site's users. For the record, I liked both Bumblebee and Aquaman; in fact, Aquaman (along with Wonder Woman) is probably the best DC film.
     
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