Star Wars Plot Holes

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by Rodimus, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. SydneyY

    SydneyY @syd_tfw Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Posts:
    11,515
    News Credits:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    276
    Likes:
    +167
    Well, yeah I tried to explain that to him (mumbled might have been more like it), which leads to

    :lolol 
     
  2. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Posts:
    6,785
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +13
  3. comaface

    comaface Crush, kill, destroy

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Posts:
    735
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +3
    The problem with this is that Luke specifically asks her "do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

    The fact that he adds "real" and emphasizes it implies that he knows she was adopted, and that he knows that she knows she was adopted, otherwise the question would just be weird and she'd probably react with confusion. There isn't really any indication that their respective adoptions were hidden from them (Luke certainly knew). Also, Leia's adoptive mother, as far as I know, didn't die until Alderaan was destroyed, at which point Leia was twenty and should've recalled more than just vague memories.

    Of course, when we all first watched Return of the Jedi and heard Leia say that her real mother died when Leia was "very young", I doubt many of us thought that "very young" meant approximately thirty seconds old. It was definitely a bit of retconning to imply that her memories are mostly gleaned through The Force, but it isn't too much of a stretch in context given how many things in Star Wars are already explained with "The Force did it".


    Other potential plotholes and possible explanations:
    -If Obi-Wan was hiding from what was essentially a Jedi genocide, why did he not think it prudent to change his last name? Possible same explanation as why they didn't change Luke's; it's a big galaxy and he's already tucked away on an obscure backwater world (the entire planet of Tatooine is supposed to have a population of about 2 million, most of whom are moisture farmers or criminals).

    -Since we see the first Death Star under construction at the end of Revenge of the Sith, that means it took over 20 years to build. Yet the second Death Star is about 75% complete in less than five years.
    Possible explanations: It always takes a lot more time to design and build the first of something than it does subsequent versions. The technology and means of production are already in place, and all the bugs have already been worked out. It's also possible that they intended there to be more than one to begin with, and they may have already started work on the second before the first was even destroyed.
     
  4. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Posts:
    6,785
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +13
    You also have to consider the "possibility" that Leia's adoptive mother died when she was very young and that her adoptive father remarried.

    I know it sounds like a "Soup Opera" but its still possible.
     
  5. comaface

    comaface Crush, kill, destroy

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Posts:
    735
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +3
    I suppose that's possible, but I don't believe that was Lucas' intention... it would make that whole part of the conversation between Luke and Leia kind of pointless, and almost comedic that Luke is leading up to the revelation that they share the same mother while Leia is actually talking about someone else entirely.
     
  6. Misatokitty

    Misatokitty The Major

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Location:
    Australia
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    Skywalker could be the galactic equivalent of Smith.

    Yeah, EU says that when the Emperor died, the low-level control he exerted over the Navy and other armed forces died as well, and their reaction times dropped and so did their creativity to deal with situations/courage/etc as well. Which is kind of seen in Jedi, in that as soon as the Emperor dies, everything goes to hell and everyone starts panicking. More than likely, when the Death Star blew up, the remaining Star Destroyers turned and fell back to a regrouping position.

    What amused me with the special editions is the shots of people partying around the galaxy. Bespin, yeah. Tatooine, yeah. Coruscant, I picture ten seconds after Palpatine's statue came down, the stormtroopers are out in force shooting people ;)  It's how I've always thought of it.

    What's even better is that the hyperdrive on the Falcon was out, so they did the whole trip to Bespin, in a neighbouring system, at sublight. Now, there are novels that have ships travelling at sublight crossing lightyears in a couple of days, but for the sake of the story, we could say it took them a couple of weeks to limp to Bespin without the hyperdrive. Luke's was functional, and was able to basically step between the two points when it came time to leave Dagobah.

    I think Order 66, as was explained in comics and whatever, was basically a prepared plan that Palpatine had been putting in place since the start of the Clone Wars, not necessarily anything hardwired into them. The clones follow orders really well and believe in the stability of the Republic to be of paramount importance... and of course, Order 66 says the Jedi are launching a coup on the Republic in its weakest moment... right after the war has finished.

    Which brings up a minor question I've wondered about, if that was the case, did that mean ALL clones followed Order 66 perfectly, or did some of those, particularly those who've been through very tight spots with their Generals and don't have other legions around, let their Jedi slink off? I'd also like to know more about the Jedi who did get away... we saw most of the Council die, and a few random younglings and such.

    I dunno the line you've referred to, but it could be there's either a homing beacon on the ship, or something tracked the ship into hyperspace... something that could be done in the original trilogy, but was more a series of probabilities rather than a hard and fast "they went here" deal. So that could be what Maul was referring to - someone's extrapolated the course, but isn't sure whether it's correct or not.

    It always makes sense to build a prototype before building the actual production model - I think the first Death Star was basically the proof of concept model (for the movies, I'm aware of the prototype Death Star from the novels) and the second, larger and more powerful, was designed to be the actual production model.

    Or, Palpatine got a great 2-for-1 deal somewhere.
     
  7. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    28,154
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    Beneath the Loft, London, UK
    Likes:
    +27,145
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    Maybe Leia lied to Luke, to get him pissy.

    'Do you remember your real Mother?'
    'Well sure, we had all sorts of great party things, lots of girly stuff. We had a ball when I was growing up! Why? Whats it to you Orphan?'

    Also, I was under the impression Dooku killed Syphilis, and pretended to be him when the Clone army was commisioned...
     
  8. Drake

    Drake Smooth Is Smooth Baby

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    11,203
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Likes:
    +4
    Because everyone from Dagobah to Coruscant knows Yoda is one lazy bastard.
     
  9. Red Alert

    Red Alert Security

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Posts:
    8,556
    News Credits:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +42
    this,


    There WERE still some jedi masters left after episode 3 and order 66.


    Why not rebuild somewhere far far away.
     
  10. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Posts:
    6,785
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +13
    I dont think its the case either....I'm just siteing the possibility.

    A lot of fans are....althou I'm a bit perplexed as to why, but Lucaus has
    hinted to other wise.
     
  11. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    Posts:
    11,534
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +4,795
    Either that or the Jedi had an awesome petty cash tin.

    Syfo Dias - Dude, mind if I take a few billion credits to buy a clone army?
    Mace - Sounds cool, just get me some cheez whiz on the way back.
     
  12. misternoodle

    misternoodle Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Posts:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +1
    replace cheez wiz with big kahuna burger.
     
  13. MEGAMAN X FAN

    MEGAMAN X FAN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Posts:
    619
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +8
    and if he dies of old age then whats gonna happen ? yoda: join the force i will feed yourselves you must .
     
  14. Julliant

    Julliant This space for rent.

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Posts:
    1,356
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +8
    I believe some clones did disobey orders, and even went on to prevent other clone squads from killing the jedi. However these defiant clones were "disciplined" by Vader later. It's very sad really, seeing as how the jedi have bonded with their troopers so well. Obi-wan with Cody, Anakin with Rex, etc.

    The troopers that Yoda commands in the first episode of the Clone Wars are also the same troopers who are ordered to look for Yoda's body in Episode III, and actually become the Coruscant guard, the troopers in the red gowns in the OT. Tragic irony.
     
  15. misternoodle

    misternoodle Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Posts:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +1
    ^ i lol'd at red gowns :lol 
     
  16. comaface

    comaface Crush, kill, destroy

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Posts:
    735
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +3
    Also, once Yoda's identity was revealed to Luke, why did Yoda start insisting on not training him? You're staring the last hope (or second last, I guess) of the galaxy in the face, but he's too old to be trained? If that's really the case (apparently it wasn't, anyway), maybe you should've started training him before he was too old...

    Was it a continuation of the test of Luke's patience?
    There's also the possibility that Obi-Wan and Yoda had learned their lessons from the prequel trilogy about having the Jedi get involved in every civil war that came along (and training risky proteges), and they actually just wanted Luke and Leia to grow up safe and far removed from the strife they may have felt partially responsible for, and that events beyond their control thrust Luke into the fight with The Empire anyway.
     
  17. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    28,154
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    Beneath the Loft, London, UK
    Likes:
    +27,145
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    I dunno, maybe because Yoda knew that there was another Skywalker?

    Oh wait, Leia's the same age as Luke. Bugger.
     
  18. Red Alert

    Red Alert Security

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Posts:
    8,556
    News Credits:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +42
    It is possible not all of the clone troopers were actual clones.Force unleashed told of at least one jedi who used real soldiers in the war.(Although probably non canon)

    The empire did use real soldiers later on in the timeline.
     
  19. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Posts:
    6,785
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +13
    Technically its possible that Yoda didnt view Luke or Leia as the last hope's at all.

    Think about it.

    Yoda may have had a grander plan.He may have wanted to wait till Leia had children and train one of them.
     
  20. Switch625

    Switch625 "Up, up, and away!"

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Posts:
    4,909
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +35
    When you think about it, Anakin's downfall and the rise of Vader and the Empire is pretty much Yoda's fault. Because of his stubborn and outdated policies, Anakin didn't get the father figure he so desperately needed from the Jedi. Instead, he got it from the enemy, who nurtured him and, when the time was right, told him exactly what he needed to hear. It's no wonder Anakin sided with Palpatine. Yoda and Mace Windu kept him at arm's length instead of nurturing him and helping him grow up. You'd think they'd treat the "Chosen One" with a little more care. That's precisely what Palpatine did. He treated Anakin like a son, which isn't too far from the truth.

    And when Luke comes around, Yoda still can't let go of his rules and declares Luke to be "too old to begin the training." If it weren't for Obi-Wan basically nagging Yoda to do it, Luke wouldn't have been trained at all.

    It's funny how Yoda gets so much love but when you get right down to it, he sucks as a leader and as head of the Jedi Council. The whole mess was his fault.