STAR WARS - General Topic Discussion

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by DarkEnergon22, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. Cyberbot8460

    Cyberbot8460 Who The Hell Do You Think I Am?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Posts:
    4,856
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    right behind you
    Likes:
    +8,827
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Oh, for sure. If you embrace those aspects and twist them in fun ways then they can be good.

    But....they didn't do that with Rey. Just generic, boring, Mary Sue.

    Like, come on, man! You could do better than that!
     
  2. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Posts:
    26,802
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +7,652
    Sad thing is, Daisy Ridley was charming and absolutely delightful in Peter Rabbit.

    giphy (39).gif

    With emotions, even! Daisy deserves better than Rey. Everyone's delightful in that movie. Just look at how wonderful General Hux is.

    3b1d87fcd43ef155fbd0601f13e754d2.gif

    Disney hired a bunch of really talented actors, and then directed them in such a way that made them look dull, and unable to act.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Hobbes-timus Prime

    Hobbes-timus Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Posts:
    4,959
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    342
    Likes:
    +7,856
    Uh, that's Rose Byrne...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Posts:
    26,802
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +7,652
    No, she's one of the rabbits. It's motion captured, so those are her emotions, and movements.

    Daisy Rabbit.PNG

    Edit: I apologize for not clarifying earlier.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    7,718
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +7,592
    - fighter takes off on auto pilot
    - flies to battle on auto pilot
    - enters battle on auto pilot
    - auto pilot is disengaged and the first flight move we see Anakin do causes him to be shot down and crash
    - manages not to crash because flying low is similar to his pod racing
    - escapes because it's similar to pod racing.

    Where exactly was he able to fly better than a trained pilot?


    It definitely should've been done better. I can see what Lucas was going for and analysing the movies I can see his fall happening, but it's still iffy.

    Absolutely agreed:
    - Episode 1 = AotC, but without the dark elements: no mother dying, no tusken slaughter. Just a happy Anakin who wants to be a good jedi and the Padme-Anakin relation (maybe more of an adventure than just sitting and playing on Naboo). Maybe also Anakin having failed the trials, despite being the Chosen One.
    - Episode 2 = A Clone Wars movie, but then with the events of his mother involved and Anakin's first inkling to the dark side. The events of the war and his success in it making him over confident.
    - Episode 3 = RotS

    But I do like TPM and would consider it a prologue. Something to tie everything together. 1-3 about Anakin, 4-6 about Luke, and TPM to lay the foundation for everything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  6. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Posts:
    28,597
    News Credits:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +19,908
    I don't think motion-capture or voice can make a complete judgement of an actor.

    So far Daisy Ridley has been seen in Star Wars and Murder on the Orient Express, and will appear in Chaos Walking. Besides that, she has had voice/mo-cap roles, but that's it. She's fairly new after all. Still, she has time ahead to do more.
     
  7. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Posts:
    26,802
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +7,652
    As a longtime animation fan, I completely, totally disagree with that statement.
     
  8. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Posts:
    28,597
    News Credits:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +19,908
    I was looking at it from the point of judging someone who's acted, voice-acted AND motion-captured only by one of those.
     
  9. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Posts:
    26,802
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +7,652
    Ah, I see, maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say then.

    It's just that I have already seen her have full acting chops, in Peter Rabbit, and the Orient Express movie as well. She may be a new comer, but it is clear she's got acting talent. Not only acting talent, but she is loaded with charisma. The very two things that Disney's Rey, seems to lack. Rey comes off as incredibly dull, as if the person can not act.

    But, the point is, I have seen her act very well, I have seen her act in both live action, and voice acting. Voice acting is a job that even the most experienced actors can fail at, but, she's able to do it just fine. This is mostly due to the difference between voice acting and visual acting.

    So, I can make a judgement on her talent by her character in Peter Rabbit. Being that she did a job that even the most experienced actors fail at, and she did it wonderfully.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Posts:
    5,444
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +5,653
    Ebay:
  11. Nova Maximus

    Nova Maximus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2020
    Posts:
    11,345
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    Mississauga, Canada
    Likes:
    +53,937
    "And I got a message from Lord Vader. He says you may now laugh about the little orphan Anni joke."
    LOA.PNG
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Chopperface

    Chopperface Chadwick Forever

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Posts:
    19,509
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Location:
    Chadwick Forever
    Likes:
    +15,298
    Rey swinging around Jabba by his tail would’ve been funny AF, not gonna lie.
     
  13. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Bounty Hunter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Posts:
    8,086
    News Credits:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Jabba's Palace
    Likes:
    +15,992
    I agree with this. Everyone harps on her being a Mary Sue, but to me her power set is only part of the problem. I think buzzword criticisms like "Mary Sue" kind of do a disservice to criticism of the character. My main problem with the character is that she's kind of a blank slate. It's not even that she's a bad actress, but she doesn't have a strong characterization. You can easily imagine how Luke or Han would react in a given scenario...you can even imagine Poe or Finn's reaction to something...but it's kind of hard to get a feel for Rey's personality.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I was thinking the other day...I think they made Rey too "nice" and innocent. I think I would have enjoyed the character more if she had more of an edge, or more of an attitude. In Michael Arndt's early drafts, Rey was apparently more hot-headed. Which is what I'd expect from a loner scavenger who was abandoned and essentially raised herself. She should be tough-as-nails and fairly distrustful of people, not saving cute droids because...she doesn't want the cute little droid to get hurt. Like, imagine if Rey had stolen BB-8 from Teedo because she wanted to sell him, or because she didn't want Teedo (a rival) to have an advantage over her while scavenging. Then she and BB-8 could form a bond while they're scavenging a Star Destroyer, and Rey realizes that BB-8 is more than just hardware. That would have made it a lot more powerful when she refused to sell BB-8 to Unkar Plutt.

    They set up her temptation to the dark side in TLJ, but I never bought that she could actually join Kylo because she seems too kind and naive. She has a few angry outbursts and moments of rudeness throughout the movies, but they always felt disingenuous to me because they played up the whole "innocent, naive, pure-of-heart" angle most of the time...which is already a boring character archetype. I like characters with a bit of an edge. A cold, tough-as-nails loner who has to learn the value of friendship would have been a neat arc for her throughout the course of the trilogy. Even that wouldn't be anything too brilliant (like, they've done that before with characters like Rocket Raccoon), but at least it's something to go on. And they could have used an arc like that to deconstruct the "no attachments" ideology of the Jedi.

    I sort of wonder if that's why Jyn Erso tends to get less criticism...she has more of an edge and feels more believable as a loner who raised herself.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  14. Cyberbot8460

    Cyberbot8460 Who The Hell Do You Think I Am?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Posts:
    4,856
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    right behind you
    Likes:
    +8,827
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Just rewatched Revenge of the Sith. Still my all-time favorite Star Wars movie. 20/10.
     
  15. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,102
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +40,126
    All I can picture is this:

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. Tetratron

    Tetratron AEColyte

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Posts:
    12,973
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Likes:
    +94,549
    Instagram:
    I usually just headcanon to it being about six years.

    Thing that I was always found amusing was how relatively small the actual armies for this galaxy wide conflict are, even in comparison to wars fought on Earth. Though the '08 shows defense that was probably because CG being expensive.
     
  17. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Posts:
    5,444
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +5,653
    Ebay:
    I give TFA a lot of crap, but it did give Rey some character traits. They just don’t survive that movie. She’s the loner longing for family, but scared to move on. The moment she hugs Finn for coming back for her really lands well. She’s really opened up and moved on. She’s ready to embrace her new friends and family.

    When she fights Kylo, something happens and all that disappears. I generally consider TLJ the best ST movie and it doesn’t really give us a consistent Rey. And TRoS is a mess on very front.


    Palptine isn’t interested in actually devestating the galaxy, so the war never really goes galactic. He makes sure the important power centers that could oppose him are devastated through outright attacks or severe taxation. But he doesn’t need to bring the war to every planet. There’s no need. The fear and despair he can cause are enough for his plans.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Posts:
    26,802
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +7,652
    Yes. LOL However, I've been calling him Little Orphan Anni way longer than that. But, thanks.

    Yea, remember when Star Wars was fun and goofy at times? Yea, I want more of that, and less of the super serious stuff. Example, Leia strangling Jabba to death, was pretty damn silly. Or, Han Solo trying to have a casual conversation with security in A New Hope. "How are you?" Yea, that sort of thing, where he just ran out of ideas on how to stall for time.

    Well, as we established earlier;

    The definition seems to change depending on the person we're talking about. (Or, in some cases, the person we're talking to.) So, it's really is just a blanketed statement that means nothing, except "Character = Bad", but, even then, it's not even bad by default. I would say it is just a rather uphill hill to climb, but can be pulled off depending on how it's done.

    Personally, I think the 'Mary Sue' criticism, does a disservice to criticism itself. It's not really criticism, it's mainly just parroting talking points people have heard from You Tube channels. At least not by itself. What is required for said criticism, is information from said character/film that backs it up. And, a definition of what one means by 'Mary Sue', as this statement can mean one thing to one person, and something totally different to someone else. We all have our own understandings of definitions of words. Definitions aren't laws, they're just a shared understanding. Shared understandings that can differ wildly depending on where you're from. So, first one has to define what they mean by 'Mary Sue'. Then, they must show/talk about examples of said thing, finally, they must show/talk about how this is bad for the character.

    It's not bad character writing by default, after all. Like all things writing, it's all about how you use them.

    Funny thing is, this wouldn't be too far off from the things we actually see her do in the movies, except this would actually be quite fun if she did this. Doesn't even have to physically grab Jabba from the tail, she can use the force or something. What's the point in having a super powerful Jedi at the end of the trilogy like Rey, if they barely even use her powers?

    I mean, this is no different than Rey suddenly having Force Heals. But, unfortunately Force Heals was meant to be taking super serious (At least that's how I took it.), where it could have been something just a tad goofier, done for a comical effect.

    The problem with Rey, and the Sequel Trilogy itself, is it just all comes off as a movie trilogy/character with a gigantic stick up it's ass.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    97,679
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +98,699
    Instagram:
    No, it actually does. That's the whole thing, if a Mary Sue is not poorly written they're not a Mary Sue.

    Mary Sue does not simply refer to a character who is flawless, but a character whose perfection and status overwrites logic and plot to place them in focus. (i.e., having access to Force techniques that have been previously established to take years to learn, or knowing how to fly spaceships with ease and style despite never being behind the wheel before, or being able to win their first ever lightsaber duel against a more experienced opponent)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Posts:
    26,802
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +7,652
    Again, I will point to my Popeye example, who has a lot of these traits (If not all of them.) and, just say, it's all how it's handled. So, as an example, if you go super goofy with Rey, and the joke is she's a Mary Sue, is it still bad by default?