STAR WARS - General Topic Discussion

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by DarkEnergon22, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. Incepticon

    Incepticon Well-Known Member

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    Heh, better yet, remember when we all just had to literally talk with our mouths & voices about our likes & dislikes of movies n' things with friends in person, then get over it and move on with life? Those pre-internet days where all of us couldn't have an opinion on goddamn everything, let alone share them like they mattered? Haha, no joke, as much as I enjoy conversing with like minded people online, I do miss those days. Far less ragey & vitriolic back then. :) 
     
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  2. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    I had hope for the KOTOR era stuff, but Dumb & Dumber is in charge of it. :( 
     
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  3. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Moderator

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    No one, including myself, are downplaying or dismissing any of the "shit" the actress went through. This may not be relevant to you, but I myself am Asian. I grew up being discriminated against, so I KNOW what she is talking about in that op ed. I KNOW first hand EVERYTHING she is feeling and thinking. What I am dismissing however, since I seem to have failed to be ABUNDANTLY CLEAR (or you actually did overreact with your own emotions and failed to properly read what I was saying), is the assumption that she deleted her social media accounts because of the harassment. I'll reiterate it again since you seem to have trouble understanding my point. I...am...not...dismissing...the fact that she was harassed. I...am...only questioning the narrative that she left social media because of the harassment. There were also reports that she may have deleted her account because she was in contract with Lucasfilm not to divulge any info on the movie. So who the hell knows? Even then, more assumptions.

    Forget the regurgitated garbage you keep linking. You only have ONE thing to argue with. ONE. And that's the NY op-ed she wrote. And in that NY op-ed she wrote, she mentioned NOTHING about leaving social media. NOTHING AT ALL. The editor made a note, but that's all that was said. But that's only the editor saying that. What KMT did state, was that she was going to be defiant and go against the status quo. She was going to be herself and be damned proud of it! She was not going to allow anyone else in her life to tell her how to think, what to think, etc. To me, that kind of defiance is worthy of admiration and respect. There's nothing wrong with speaking out against those trolls. But problem here in what you're doing is conflating those who won't accept conjecture and assumptions as "matter of fact" statements to those who are condoning the idiotic behavior of the trolls. That makes it unreasonable. I don't need to go find proof. I've already read the majority of those ridiculous articles when they first came out. Why do I need to go "find them again" if I've already had enough of that regurgitated nonsense? But to you that makes me lazy right? More...assumptions. You really need to chill out.
     
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  4. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    9B538A87-5F81-4D16-BE27-3BE7C3710326.jpeg

    That was before Disney got a hold of it, and decided that the Jedi don't allow romance but kinky casual sex between master and student is commonplace.

    new book.png
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  5. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Dude, she not only confirmed the harassment was behind her decision to quit, she did so by writing an entire OP ED about it in the New York Times. This hasn't been an "assumption" for a long time now.
     
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  6. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Moderator

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    Ok. That op-ed? Here, I'm going to quote the op-ed she wrote word for word...

    Title:


    That should be pretty straight forward there. Doesn't say anything about quitting.


    Now onto her words:


    Where in any of that did she say she quit social media because of the harassment? Nowhere. However there is that editor's note just shortly before her written words:

    That's from the editor, not from her. I am not going to listen to someone else speaking on behalf of her when she is perfectly capable of speaking up for herself as she has so eloquently done in that op-ed. When that op-ed came out, I even went out of my way to look for her own personal statement to that effect. Even to this day, I found nothing, and honestly...that's perfectly ok. Everyone that has written articles citing this op-ed last year literally put words in her mouth about her "decision" which I've found to be a common tactic used in today's media. When I look at all those articles written in response to include the editor's note, I tried to be objective about it. They're all saying she wrote it to explain her decision. Was it really because she was explaining her decision to leave social media? Or was it because that's what people thought was the reason behind her writing the op-ed that detailed how she felt about the harassment? That's key. Ok so I read the article. Good stuff indeed! But her op-ed basically is a huge middle finger to all the trolls telling them she is damned proud of who she is, and she's not going to let them affect her. And also...she's ONLY getting started. I can't tell you how happy I was to read those words. And how finally...someone told the trolls off by taking that high road approach in not only being eloquent about it, but she didn't sink to their level. Very classy of her. But still...it wasn't a definitive. I've read other op-eds written by other people who have explained why they did what they did. They all specifically mention their decision. Kelly/Loan? Not a word about that. The closest I came to it was this:

    Kelly Marie Tran Talks Social Media After 'Star Wars' Attacks: "I Don't Know If I'll Ever Go Back"

    In the video she was asked why she wrote it and if she would go back. She didn't say she left because of the a-holes. Now that I think about it as I'm typing all this out, I don't think she would even state that now that because that would be like giving the a-holes a win. Maybe. I could be wrong about that. As I mentioned before, it isn't unreasonable to make that assumption because of the circumstances and all, but for me...I'd much rather hear it from her. Not some opinionated person behind a desk writing an article citing her words and putting words in her mouth. The fact that no further reporting, much less her even mentioning anything regarding that (as far as I know) tells me she's moved on from it. To me, it seems it's no longer an issue for her. She has better things to do.

    *edit*

    I'll even throw out an olive branch here. This is really only my opinion. As I've stated many times before, you or anyone else are more than welcome to disagree. But I just can't find myself to give into assumptions or conjecture no matter what anyone else says. It could be because I've always been one in jobs where I can't. Gotta have that clear, irrefutable and undeniable evidence. Circumstantial stuff...won't cut it. Call it a habit that's too hard to die.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  7. Incepticon

    Incepticon Well-Known Member

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    You are being astoundingly ridiculous and what seems to be intentionally daft for sake of not admitting that you're sooo almost hilariously wrong. Those articles aren't "regurgitated garbage" - which you would know if your read more than just the bolded caption at the beginning of ONE - they are a mere five of multi-dozens specifically to highlight what she went through and WHY she felt she had to leave social media at the time. Again, not "opinion" or up for debate.

    I do agree with you on one thing, however; you pointing out what race you are in such a contrived way of "getting it" IS indeed completely moot and irrelevant to the actual conversation happening here. That conversation, again, being that because Kelly Tran apparently does not have a video where she looks directly into a camera to articulate what is already glaringly obvious to literally every single person in the world that claims intellectual competency, that this is all conjecture/rumor/assumption/blah yada etc. It's insane, and bluntly, you should be embarrassed. I mean, wanting more information to go on is one thing, but to still have the audacity to deny multitudes of in-your-face facts as still just being conflated conjecture & assumption is... hell, I don't even know what that is. I previously said you were being ignorant, but with each double-down you've done on this nonsense, you've hit a level of denial that is arguably conspiracy theory in nature. And that's as far as I can go with this banality any longer. Clearly there is zero point to articulate more if facts & reality still aren't cutting it.

    Anyway, screw it, I'll let (almost) everyone get back to keeping heads in the sand on this one while I continue to be in awe of how this discussion ever needed to be debated in the first place, let alone via multiple posts. Holy. Shit.
     
  8. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I'm sure Ms. Tran assumes people reading the New York Times are capable of normal levels of inference based on context, and won't need everything spelled out explicitly for them like a Terminator listening to a young John Connor. She's also perfectly capable of asking for a correction from the Times if she was misrepresented.
     
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  9. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Moderator

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    Not up for debate? Yet you do it anyway? What's more ridiculous, wrongly conflating two things in order to form an argument or just merely not wanting to accept assumptions from people when the person of the topic at hand has not yet said literally herself...why she made her decision? All you had to do was find her own words that said it. But you've failed to do it, and now you're projecting your failure onto me? Yeah, ok.

    What you call "in-your-face-facts" aren't really the facts you seem to think they are. She was bullied. That is fact. She left social media. That is also fact. Why did she leave? Like you said, that is where the topic of the conversation is. You ignored the very fact that it was assumed she left for different reasons. You only hung onto every single article that cited her words in the op-ed...that made the assumption that she did it because of the harassment. Yet it is undeniable that at that time, she herself never mentioned why. That's ALL I'm saying. Has she since then? I don't know. But you seem to want to ignore that, then go off on "intellectual competency" shtick while displaying severe reading comprehension issues. All I'm saying is I'm unwilling to accept that. And here you go again, flying off the handle right after you said you "weren't known for doing that." You must not realize the hypocrisy in your own words. But that's ok. Conspiracy theory in nature? Geez...are you serious? Are you just reaching out at any given direction to slam me for my opinion just because you aren't able to accept a mere unimportant, and insignificant disagreement? You failed to understand my point, so you've spent multiple posts lashing out at me with this unnecessary hostility, and yet you have the nerve to say I'm the one being ridiculous? Not only that, if you read the bolded part I just put, there was really no need for you to make this mountain out of that molehill. On top of that, you conflated my opinion with the condoning of her harassment? But yet I'm the one who's being ridiculous :rolleyes:  Seem like you should be the one who's embarrassed. The only reason why I'm seemingly "double downing" on my point is because, again, you've displayed a total failure to understand a simple point. I was wrong in thinking that if I just reiterated it, maybe you would have taken the time to try to read and understand where I'm coming from. So much for intellectual competency. It would seem all you want to do is argue argue argue. Well enough could not be left alone apparently. If nothing else, I can see you're not one to have a civil conversation with.

    Yet you chose to respond? And then try to slam others for doing the same? o_O  Yeah you really do need to chill out.

    Again, nowhere did I say that was wrong for anyone to do. All I'm saying is, personally, I'd rather hear it from her. Why that has to be so hotly debated, talked about...I don't know.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  10. TattooedRobot

    TattooedRobot Stewed, Screwed and Tattooed TFW2005 Supporter

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    109A59D2-7DCD-47D7-ADD3-AD9D806219DE.gif
     
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  11. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    Like I said, fun left the building after Disney said that Masters and Padawans shagging is canon.
     
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  12. Starfire22

    Starfire22 The Devil of Heck

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    You mean to tell me that Jedi don't get laid?

    *rips off robes*

    Gonna join the Sith. Kthnksbai.
     
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  13. TattooedRobot

    TattooedRobot Stewed, Screwed and Tattooed TFW2005 Supporter

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    You mean like the Spartans? Weird.
     
  14. GuardianAngel87

    GuardianAngel87 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure that happened long before that.
     
  15. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    Eh, considering how young Padawans start out, it'd be more like a teacher and student or priest and choir boy. Even if they are of age, the power dynamic makes it skeezy. Plus, it makes Anakin even more pathetic, since all he had to do to avoid the Dark Side was treat Padme like a sex doll.

    Oh, you can. You just can't have feelings for the person you are screwing. Forgetabout a spouse, it's the red light district for the Jedi.
     
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  16. SharkyMcShark

    SharkyMcShark Hi. I'm better than you

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    There are a number of storytelling issues with the Finn/Rose/Canto Bight plot. The pacing wasn't great, coincidentally finding an expert hacker in their jail cell was a bit cheap, and the payoff at the end for Finn and Rose (where she prevented his self-sacrifice) was tonally inconsistent in that it was sandwiched between two of the most visually spectacular acts of self sacrifice in the saga (Holdo and Luke).

    That said, the plan was specifically written to ultimately fail. It's a part of Poe's character arc. He's the one that actioned the plan. Like with the dreadnought at the start of the film, he had to learn that rushing to action with an improvised plan because it seems like the right thing to do isn't the best way to lead. He learns his lesson by the end of the film.

    Unfortunately the fact that the film chose to have Poe, Rey and Kylo as the three leads (as opposed to TFA's Rey, Finn and Han) left Finn on the sidelines a bit.

    I'd have preferred a slightly more BSG style 'spy in the fleet' angle personally.
     
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  17. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but the idea just keeps getting funnier. Since Force use is biological, does that mean that was a huge spike in Force users being born to the prostitutes around Coruscant? Like, did they first figure it out when the street urchins were mind controlling guards?

    Did Yoda ever tell Luke?

    "Screw her, you may. Call her in the morning, you must not."
    "But master...!"
    "Calling leads to love, love leads to marriage, and marriage leads to the dark side."

    Really, it makes the Jedi sound like it was founded by incels.

    :lolol 
     
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  18. SharkyMcShark

    SharkyMcShark Hi. I'm better than you

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    I mean, it is on brand for the PT era Jedi, isn't it?

    They weren't a particularly emotionally well balanced lot.

    Remember that time Yoda told Anakin to basically just get over his fear of someone dying, and to be happy about it?
     
  19. HunterGreen2005

    HunterGreen2005 Spoon!

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    No, but you're allowed to make out with your twin sister. o_O 
     
  20. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    It's a pretty gross (in more than one sense) misapplication of something George Lucas said. He said that the Jedi weren't celibate, and that it was only possessive forms of love that were forbidden.

    But that doesn't mean masters banging padawans, or strictly cheap casual sex. It doesn't mean romance is forbidden. It doesn't even mean an exclusive arrangement like marriage is strictly out of the question, if the exclusivity isn't born out of jealousy or a sense of ownership and unhealthy attachment. It would mean something more like the emotional rules and practices people have in polyamorous relationships--although not necessarily with more than two partners actually involved. It means not needing to have control. It means loving while also being willing to let go.
     
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