Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by eagc7, Jan 11, 2016.
Spoiler: If not, then
I’d have gone with a connection to Satele and Bastilla Shan myself.
So I came back from seeing this with my son. While it wasn't a bad movie, to me, it just didn't feel like a Stars Wars movie at all. It felt like any other outter space movie out there.
As an aside, unless Poe is a trader in third, he is the worst character I have ever seen.
It's as Laia says, everything he does get's people killed. He gets all the bombers destroyed and all the people in them killed for his plan. Only one not to die is him. Then he disagrees to follow the plan because he doesn't know it, and send away others to try to save the ship. Meanwhile, his plan leads to all of the rescue crafts being blown up.
I know the movie deals with this at the end when he tells Finn and Rose to back down. But shit, his actions led to 80% of the deaths for the rebels in this movie.
Not to mention what would the drama be? Welcome back to the peaceful land of SW? This kind of sanctification of characters gives you stupid villains like the Yuhzan Vong (spelling?).
Not sure why Poe is the worst character. TLJ did more to develop his character in one scene than TFA did for an entire movie. He's a brash, egotistical pilot that failed because he thought more of himself than he did the rest of the leadership. He needed to fail and to learn. Even Yoda said something similar to Luke. Poe starts to get it by the end of the movie and it's pretty obvious that Leia is grooming him for leadership.
The overall theme of this movie is the passing of the baton and how every master gets surpassed by their student at some point in time. Luke to Rey, Leia to Poe, Snoke to Kylo.
I truly get why peeps don't like the movie, but I still love it and can't wait to see it a third time in the next week or so.
Well, here is the thing for me anyway. Do you really want him to be a leader? He is fine as a Han Solo type of character. Out for himself and does what he wants. But his character perfectly shows why it would have been a horrid idea to have Solo as a leader. He can help, but as a leader, he will get everyone killed.
In this movie, Poe's decisions led to 80% of the rebel deaths. No way I follow that dude to war.
BTW, didn't say I didn't like the movie, just that it didn't feel like SW to me. And it's not that I don't like Poe, it's what they make his character responsible for thats the problem for me. Especially since it is so clearly called out by the movie itself.
wasn't Bastilla Shan Revan's wife and Satele his descendant?
Memento was awful. I gave that movie three viewings and found it worse with each one. It's so bad that no second hand store even wants my BD of it.
Nolan is just a jerkoff who thinks making his movies as bombastic as possible to the point that you can't even hear the dialog is a good thing.
As for good movies, he's only got four. Inception, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Prestige. For bad, he's got Interstellar, Insomnia, Memento, Dunkirk, and Insomnia.
Honestly I could never remember who came first: Bastilla or Satele. I think you’re right, because Satele is Grandmaster in The Old Republic MMO which I’m sure is after KOTOR 1 and 2.
Or to put it in even simplier terms, hubris.
The entire movie revolves around every character's hubris and whether or not they can overcome it.
haha fooled you there is no spoiler here!
What's the limit on "super reaching" when Force users are basically space wizards and the Force is, for all intents and purposes, magic?
The scene in question was obviously a big fake out moment. A lot of stuff in TLJ is deliberate in its intent to subvert and flip viewer expectations.
True, the answer to everything in SW is either "the force" or "extreme weathered isolated planet."
That's you projecting what you want the character to be. He was never a Han Solo character. Han never would have enlisted, for one thing. So right there is an insurmountable difference between the two characters. Poe is not out for himself. He's a believer in the cause. You've totally misread the character types.
Can i just say its been fun reading the comments? Brings me back to theforce dot net days.
That caught me off guard too. But that doesnt make her a powerful user. She was in a crisis situation and it was a life saving measure. Its unnecessary to the plot (they couldve just made her survive the explosion the way poe survived the hangar getting blown up) but this is rian taking a risk. Its a nice gesture but if absolutely had to be done it could've been put in the next movie, which should center around her.
They played save with han in TFA but this is the best scenario for luke. What, u think he was gonna be chill n wise like boring ass ben? I can see how opinions are divided but i love luke in this, beach camel milking, warts and all.
I actually love that that rey was all PUT A SHIRT ON. Reminds us she's still a kid, easy to forget what with all her powers. i kinda get why people are upset with her payoff, why she is so poweful. But as a religious person its delicious irony for me a bunch of movie fans are disappointed at the (lack of) divine revelation. Heres an advice: your belief is worth as much as what you put into it.
(I still haven't made up my mind on this but theres still time to tell her story in the next movie)
People are completely misunderstanding Poe's arc through this film.
We see right from the beginning of the film that he wants to take a leadership role when he leads the charge against the Dreadnaught. Both through his actions on the battlefield and in the scene where Holdo is appointed as Leia's stand-in we're shown his eagerness to step up.
He begins the film doing things that work if you're a lone flyboy hothead. He led the charge against the Dreadnaught and while the target was destroyed and he survived, it was a complete and utter tactical disaster for the Resistance. Poe's goal was achieved, but the cost was too great.
"You can't solve every problem by hopping in an X-Wing and blowing something up" - General Leia
He's demoted, and then the surviving Resistance Starfighter Corps are effectively completely wiped out - we see a handful of surviving pilots and no fightercraft. Holdo is put in charge and in those circumstances understandably doesn't let Poe in on what her long term plan is.
Poe again thinks he knows best and should be in a leadership role and leaps into action. He dispatches Finn and Rose to Canto Bight to find the slicer, and mutinies against Holdo. It's another plan that is really only suited to an elite flyboy or solider working on his own. The Finn and Rose quest fails when the slicer betrays them and they don't shut down the tracker - but that was the entire point. It didn't work, and again Poe leaping quickly into direct action was the cause of losses for the Resistance.
By the film's end Luke Skywalker is seemingly leading the charge against the First Order on Crait. Does Poe go charging out behind him? No, because he's evidently learned from his mistakes during the film and acts accordingly.
None the less critics keep crapping on about how pointless the Canto Bight sequence was because no one apparently wants to put any thought into these things.
So again, hubris. Just like Luke had to overcome his own hubris several times in the film. That Snoke's hubris was his undoing. Holdo's hubris inadvertantly leads to a mutiny.
Still doesn't make Poe's or Finn's sub arcs any less satisfying. People get the point of their character arcs in the story. They just don't think they are very good or compelling.
Not only that, but he recalls the speeders instead of expending more lives needlessly as had been his habit.
I didn't love the movie after leaving the theater, but as I have had time to think about it the past two days, I think I'm liking it a lot more.
There are some great individual moments in this movie.
I think JJ will do episode 9 right, and it might help to smooth over some of the problems this one might have had.
I'd argue (from a certain point of view ) that Holdo was ultimately responsible for the mess with the mutiny and the transport ships being picked off one-by-one by the FO. All because she withheld vital information.
Her decision to do this wasn't understandable at all (except to conveniently create some manufactured conflict for drama's sake, leading into a 40+ minute sequence that could've been truncated a bit).
When Rose is introduced to Finn, she even says that she's had to previously stun three deserters from trying to jump ship on board the escape pods. When desertion starts becoming a widespread problem, withholding information from the crew is a dumb mistake for any commanding officer.
That's why I think Holdo is a terrible leader just as much as Poe is a terrible follower. And the reason that Leia gives for Holdo's reluctance in divulging her plan is monumentally stupid, and boils down to Holdo supposedly not wanting to play the part of a hero. But yet at the end, what does Holdo do? She sacrifices herself and dies playing the part of the hero. Ugh. I like Laura Dern as an actor but this wasn't her best role (I blame the writers for that).
The scene with the Raddus (nice callback to Rogue One's Mon Calmari admiral) cruiser becoming a light speed missile was very cool and all but everything leading up to it felt so contrived to me, all to make Holdo look strong (when she really wasn't) and Poe look dumb (because he didn't have all the info, just so Leia could teach him a lesson on being a good leader, all in the middle of the Resistance's darkest hour?).
It doesn't jibe at all to me. The deliberate lack of communication in the Resistance chain of command (and as a narrative tool to force the story along a nonsensical direction for the characters) is beyond frustrating to me.
On a side note, if lightspeed missiles are so damn effective, how come the idea hasn't been capitalized on and formally integrated into the arsenals on both sides of the conflict? Heck, even ships as small as X-Wings have hyperdrive engines.
The movie definitely had it's flaws, and I certainly wasn't expecting it to reach the level of enjoyment The Force Awakens gave me. Nonetheless, it was a great addition to the saga, and I love how the plot twisted and turned, keeping us on our toes. It also definitely demonstrated just how ill-equipped and outmatched the Resistance (and sort of by extension, the Rebellion before it) were, seeing as how the First Order spent the last several decades creating a quantum leap in military technology, leading to their monstrous and incredibly powerful warships, and equally devastating super-weapons.
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