Star Trek Beyond (2016)

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by QLRformer, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I don't mind Sulu being gay. I had almost sort of assumed that the new version would be. I think that Mr. Takei has an understandably outsized attachment to the character as he has always been. It may not match Gene's creative vision, but Star Trek now is so far away from that vision in so many ways right now that this is only one more drop in a giant bucket. It hardly matters.

    That said, it's interesting that the change was Simon Pegg's idea. In one way it's characteristic, since he's already made it known that he could give half a crap about authorial intent. In another way it's richly ironic, since he's been so vocally hypercritical of others for "changing" things he likes. Hell, his even being in these at all is already ironic for that reason.
     
  2. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    Don't really care, but the shoehorning of having to have x diversity character just for the sake of inclusion is starting to get old in pop culture for me.

    it shows a lack of imagination and anyone that complains about the constant reboots should be complaining about the same.
     
  3. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Is it necessarily a good thing?

    Lets talk the TF movies for a moment:
    Pro-military.
    Things go boom.
    Plenty of American Flags.
    These movies are called bombastic by many, which is not a term of endearment. I've even see a couple "right wing's wet dream" comments.

    Does it feel good to watch a movie where its central ethic rubs you the wrong way?

    So now we have trends where we see race, gender and gender preference flipping in movies and comics for no other reason than to "be progressive". It's not organic storytelling, and it usually results in blasting hate at people for not automatically loving and accepting it.

    Sometimes I can't tell progressive zealotry from religious zealotry. Hell, they might be the same at times.
     
  4. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    I specifically said FRANCHISE instead of SULU where I did because Takei was unclear about his personal conversation with Roddenberry and his precise requests about incorporating alternative lifestyles into the franchise.

    How ironic then that you nonetheless accused me of making assumptions you merely assumed I'd made, lol.

    Yeah...again, Roddenberry's vision was apparently that Sulu either be deeply private or asexual, lol. He really barely addressed the character at all, so there's not really much to contradict about him in the first place.
     
  5. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    If I remember Sulu was usually a pretty good shot with the ship's weapons.

    Better that Worf's aim.
     
  6. Incepticon

    Incepticon |-+-|

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    I've been greatly enjoying the typical type of thumb-upping, blind sharing, meme making, etc. internet "advocates" getting caught in an instant back peddle on this.

    "Yeeeeah! Diversity! Representation! About tim.... ohhh, wait, what? Takei isn't on board with it!? Umm... ehhh... okay... yeah HE'S right! Don't change things for sake of changing things!! Der der der...".

    It's been fucking hilarious.
     
  7. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    It may or may not be. But it absolutely isn't a bad thing.

    There was a time when Kirk and Uhura kissing was a controversy. Decades later, society has evolved past that. Decades from now, it will have evolved past this.


    You can feel free to consider me someone more than capable of A) being able to separate fictional works from real life, and B) being confident enough in my beliefs and opinions so as not to let a fictional work affect them.
     
  8. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    yea, i feel like the only reason why they made him gay, is because Takei is gay. and that is a terrible reason to make somebody gay.

    well, what happened on screen, does not necessarily reflect what Roddenberry's vision may have been. Takei probably knows things about his vision that we are all unware of.
     
  9. MetalicGrunt

    MetalicGrunt Rust Proof Commando

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    Have to agree with Takei on this one. Hell Roddenberry can'd a TNG episode that was going to deal with a gay crew member because of potential issues. It just feels so forced, partially to be "progressive" but also to cash in on the current events by hitting on certain emotions of inclusion.
     
  10. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    i fully disagree

    kirks eyes moved from right to left as if he was seeing the inside of the bridge

    thats a STRONG INDICATION that theintent of the shot was to have kirk looking inside

    yep
     
  11. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    even the word of Roddenberry was not considered canon

    are you a fan of the remastered release of tos?
     
  12. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    Simon Pegg and Zachary Quinto react to George Takei's disappointment over the changes to Sulu's character.

    While I understand Takei's reasons for not liking them making Sulu gay, I'd have to agree with Pegg and Quinto. Inventing a new character wouldn't have worked, it had to be one of the main cast of characters. And this is and issue that the Star Trek franchise has been severely lacking on, for a franchise that's been known for showing ideals for social equality.

    Simply looking right to left as he's looking at the shrunken Enterprise really doesn't indicate to me that he's specifically looking into the bridge to me at all. Being the 3 foot model, that'd be a very tiny window, too small to be able to look right or left into the bridge like that. Seems more likely he's just looking at the Enterprise itself.

    Can't help but notice you left off the part where I said "Year of Hell" clearly showed Voyager's viewscreen was generated by a hologrid and not at all a window.
     
  13. Goaliebot

    Goaliebot All Makes and Models

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    Agreed.
    Also, some people are confusing Takei's comments to mean he agrees there "shouldn't be a gay character on Star Trek", which he was absolutely clear is not the case.
     
  14. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    again i disagree

    he walked right up and looked right into the bridge module
    even made a comment about the crew, as if seeing them frozen

    because its totally irrelevant to my point
    the fact hat 1 episode contradict an other is nothing new

    and besides that,m i already pointed out it wasnt as clear cut, the reason is because q's were involved
     
  15. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    He walked right up to the Enterprise, but Kirk wasn't all that close to the bridge model. You could still see most of his face on the viewscreen. With the ship reduced to only 3 feet, you gotta remember how tiny those windows would be. He'd have to have is eye right up to the ship to maybe see anything at all. And all he said about the crew was just simply "My crew". That in no way suggests he could actually see them in their suspended state, just that he was concerned for their condition obviously given the condition of the ship.

    Totally irrelevant to your point? How? It proves beyond a doubt that Voyager's viewscreen was not a window, which is the whole point of this discussion in the first place. Where as, like you say, with Q there is nothing clear cut about that given their abilities, let alone to say that it contradicts anything.

    And just to point out another example, after the Enterprise D's crashed in Star Trek Generations, they showed the screen all torn up with a wall behind it.
     
  16. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    a simple scale issues is all
    and he did it while looking into the bridge,
    and the camera then panned around to give us the visual perspective of kirk eyes from the viewscrean

    That INDEED suggests he could actually see them inside the ship at their suspended state,

    i answered that already
    if it came off rude that was not what i wanted

    beyond a doubt....hardly
    because as i pointed out it contradicts what was seen in an other episode
    even if that other episode presents doubts of its own
     
  17. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, I know the TOS episodes weren't perfect but that just sounds like you're making excuses for it. The point is, that scene is superficial evidence at best, which obviously leaves it open for interpretation. If you think that's enough to say the viewscreen is a window, ok then. But to me, there's nothing definitive enough about it to make that claim, especially when we do have clear evidence from other Prime universe series and movies that proves otherwise.

    No, you didn't answer it. It is a completely relevant point.

    You can't make the claim "Death Wish" contradicts it when, as you've even said yourself, that episode isn't clear about it in the first place. "Year of Hell" on the other hand is clear cut about it, given we actually see the damaged viewscreen in that episode. And despite "Year of Hell" sorta involving time travel, there's absolutely no reason to believe it casts any doubts about the construction of Voyager.

    And again, we also saw the Enterprise D screen was shredded after its crash in Generations and the Enterprise E was shown to have a hologram for a viewscreen in First Contact.
     
  18. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% THIS.

    Sorry, but Takei is REALLY sounding WAY too attached to and proprietary over a character he himself admits minimal input towards while similarly misunderstanding the misguided, economically/sociologically-motivated constraints of a long-bygone era.

    THIS is the pop-culture progress he and Roddenberry BOTH would have championed in their time, had they been able to. Y'know, the whole aim of the entire franchise to start with.

    But okay, wrong character?!?

    Because Sulu was SUCH a raging hetero BEFORE all this?!?

    Surrrre.

    >_>
     
  19. Goaliebot

    Goaliebot All Makes and Models

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    I heard that they were thinking of making Kirk bi in TOS, but they couldn't afford to double the lens Vaseline budget. :p 
     
  20. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    It's not unusual for actors to change their view on a character over time. Leonard Nimoy had the books "I am not Spock" and "I am Spock" because his views on his character changed over time. Watching interviews or panels with older actors it seems rather common for actors to grow more fond of their characters and more protective of those characters as they grow older.

    But I think everyone knew the implications of being outed back in the old days. When Rock Hudson was outed after his death from AIDS in the 80's it ruined his reputation. Roddenberry might have been protecting George Takei by having Sulu heterosexual because Hollywood was so squeamish about casting outed actors.