Someone complained about how Optimus Prime was portrayed?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by iLuvM3, Jun 27, 2009.

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  1. Vengeance1701

    Vengeance1701 Well-Known Member

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    The GTFO mentality also invaded the Trek boards with the new movie.

    This summer's produced a lot of division in two big fandoms.

    And we're not even to GI Joe yet.
     
  2. transmetal2dinobot

    transmetal2dinobot Sub-Commander

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    it's everywhere dude, just like the "if you liked the movie you're an idiot" mentality. the fandom is taking sides. it'll cool off after a few months.
     
  3. Vengeance1701

    Vengeance1701 Well-Known Member

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    It still hasn't on the Trek boards....

    Yeesh. Not to sound 'insulting' to the fine folks here but you'd figure a Trek board would be a little less prone to this sorta thing given its history of 'tolerance' and 'intellectualism'.

    But I guess all fanbases truly are alike.
     
  4. TFfan08

    TFfan08 Vigilante

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    FUN to kill villains..duh!
     
  5. Malikon

    Malikon Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't thought of it that way, I thought he just TF'd them. But I like that theory a lot!
     
  6. gold333

    gold333 New Member

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    The reason people have issues with the execution of Demolisher scene is not that the G1 cartoon was for kids and therefore no one died and that's why Prime was portrayed as being a virtuous leader. It's not so simple in my view.

    In real life leadership situations working in teams, dealing with hate, having people look upto you for guidance even when inside -you- don't know what to do, is not Hollywood kids fairyland..

    Being a leader does mean sacrificing a lesser good to prevent a greater evil, losing innocence and starting to question your own morality. That's how leaders are made, they are not born. An internal struggle forms. If they live through it and maintain a semblance of their original ethics they can be said to have made it through.

    That's what made the earlier depictions of the Optimus Prime character so appealing. The character "always" knew what the right decision was instinctively. He made it look like the "grey area" was clear cut. He had an effortless leadership style in morally dubious territory. Or could make it -seem- so.


    "The thought that good guys can't/won't/shouldn't kill is rediculous and only exists in either the minds of pacifist idealists, comic books, and in childrens cartoons. Real life does not allow for such idealistic notions. The Autobots are at war with the Decepticons."

    This misses the point! There isn't just the -weak- and the -strong-. The -good- and the -bad-. That is the stuff of Hollywood! That is the stuff of kids cartoons! In real life a good leader has to fight through times when he becomes evil, has to find a balance within himself. The notion of "John Wayne always wins, just be a badass and pull the trigger the most and you'll surely win" is what is too simplistic.

    The balance of being inherently good, but having to tolerate your own evil was the cornerstone of G1 Prime. It is how effortlessly this balance is found within him that made the character unique. "Badassness" was just one strength of the original Prime. Yet in the last movie it seems to be his only strength.


    For eveyone that fought alongside him G1 Prime was the essence of rightousness, strength, and hope, but above all virtue. One could argue that the immeasurable virtue prevalent within the character gave him all his additional strengths. It was upon this "virtue" that the character was based.

    It was exactly this depth that was missing in the new Prime in T1 and T2 movies. Everytime he speaks you can sense something is missing.


    To some having Prime not kill anyone seems too innocent, childlike and stupid. To me (the next step up from that but just as childish) is the John Wayne badass portrayal. Glib remarks before executing a downed unarmed foe is as much 6 year old John Wayne material as a G1 cartoon.

    "Any last wishes...?" BLAM! Any fool could have done this. Hell it's 100% identical to something Megatron would do. Where does that leave the entire meaning of TF?

    I don't know the way the demolisher scene should have played out maybe Prime should have shot Demolisher, and slowly walked away towards and off camera even as others called out to him as he was walking away, obviously disturbed. Something similar to this that would have demonstrated some depth. I don't know.



    I'm surprised Peter Cullen, who's been with this character for so long didn't say, wait a minute guys, these scripts miss the entire point of Optimus Prime.

    To be honest, I'm no (true) leader, but I think the people who wrote the dialogue for the original cartoon perhaps had a better understanding of what a leader really is and how they act and speak than the people who wrote lines for the latest movie.

    Great special effects though.
     
  7. AniProwl

    AniProwl Banned

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  8. Autobot Blasty

    Autobot Blasty Member

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    Hey...this is the movie world, and with the PG-13 rating they don't have to tone down the violence or censor it as much. Also, keep in mind that they usually don't "kill" characters as long as the toy is still worth promoting. But in the space of a 2+ hour movie, they usually have more leeway because, as we all know, by the end the bad guys have to either die or go into hiding. (Also, basic toy marketing plays a part here: they don't just slaughter 'Cons for dramatic effect, this gives them carte blanche to flood the toy shelves with a whole new batch of bad guys in the next movie.)

    Other than the marketing/sales aspect, though, I like badass Prime. I never liked heroes who were unwilling to take the life of a dangerous baddie because of some personal moral code (as much as I enjoy super hero movies, I still think it's silly for most of them to not kill their enemies because it's IMMORAL). A hero who's willing to take down his share of bad guys permanently is much cooler in my book. I loved the execution of Demolishor, punk got what he deserved.

    Although this Prime DOES have a fetish for heads...
     
  9. interceo

    interceo Well-Known Member

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    Ok there's one episode, in series one cartoon, when aerialbots gone to the past and found orion pax to become prime and then he faces the decepticons and start shotting at them and kille'm like flyes; In the cartoon no decepticon dies cause they always scape; what would be of the series if all the autobots and decepticos died in the first chapter not to mention was a cartoon made for kids; besides in the rotf movie demolisher in his scaping almost destroy the city so the only prime's choice was to kill him.

    I like the way they course the decepticons during a fight...
     
  10. AniProwl

    AniProwl Banned

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    I feel also that Optimus who usually is like Superman or Captain America became all like the Punisher.

    Pity Michael Bay never heard of stasis locks.
     
  11. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    No deaths would have made the movie kinda of boring.
     
  12. Autobot Blasty

    Autobot Blasty Member

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    Also, a page or two back, someone commented on how the factions don't conduct themselves like our soldiers do. Keep in mind that this is an alien civilization and they probably have different ideas on how war should be conducted. The Autobots behave more like a ragtag renegade merc unit than a well-orchestrated war machine in some cases. They don't place as much value on rank and status as we do (at least in any continuity we've seen...though Animated had more of a focus on that in some episodes). Maybe it IS standard for them to kill or be killed.
     
  13. gold333

    gold333 New Member

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    If one doubts their own resolve to take the lives of an aggressor in order to protect the lives of the innocent, there is no doubt they will be among the dead themselves.

    But from what you write, it seems you favor heros who kill for enjoyment rather than necessity.
     
  14. Autobot Blasty

    Autobot Blasty Member

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    Nah, I just like seeing a bad guy getting what they deserve. Pleasure-killing, I think, would take it a bit too far. At times, though, Prime does seem to...uh...revel in what he does to the Decepticons...
     
  15. [Wing_Saber-X]

    [Wing_Saber-X] Takara Fanboy Collector

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    Uh oh, this thread is utterly ......







    Spam alert , spam alert.

    Lock it please! For the love of god!
     
  16. mentat_emre

    mentat_emre Well-Known Member

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    Truth is writers and the director have little about TF characters. AFAIK demolishor situaiton is the sixth decepticon activity. We may assume some of he previous situations went bad. After that prime's behaivour changed against decepticons. It would have been nice if they explained this event in the comics.
     
  17. Richard Prime

    Richard Prime Banned

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    This is the best thing someone has said all day
     
  18. Gozer-Bot

    Gozer-Bot Banned

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    Someone needs to check Prime for cyberbees.

    Oh, that's it.

    YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU KNOW WHAT?!

    [​IMG]

    Goddamn it, it's not fanboyism to expect a halfway decent explanation of the plot that comes from the events of the movie and not from a character in the final stretch of the goddamn film (who, because of his exposition, has the most lines of any TF in the film besides Optimus maybe), a sane sense of time and geography, characterization that makes you feel some emotion when a character dies, a movie that's free of dog humping, pot brownies, giant metal nards, excessive swearing, subtle racism and leg humping in a movie parents are going to be taking three year olds to see, dialogue that sounds like it was written by a human being, and something you don't need to get familiar with extracurricular material to be up to speed on anything that goes on in the movie! "it's just a movie" does not excuse this shit! This was not just a terrible transformers film, this was a terrible movie in general! This is not how you write a decent film! This is how you write "Date Movie!" Super serious, I felt like I was watching one of those godawful "parody of genre" crapfeasts.

    And yeah, as a fan of the franchise I'm offended too. They turned something great into "Meet the Spartans!"

    I'M SICK OF YOU BRAINLESS TEENYBOPPERS TELLING US TO LAP UP THE SAME SHIT YOU'RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO LICK OFF THE FLOOR! NOT JUST HERE, BUT EVERY TIME A CRAPPY MOVIE COMES OUT!

    Know why I'm so pissed off here? I want to be a director. I want to make movies at some point in my life. Do you have any idea how utterly gut wrenching it is to see films like this do so well? To imagine entering the business when god-awful crap like this is so popular? Cinema's a business now. What little art there was involved in movies has been fucked out of it by the bloated, shuffling plebs in favor of bikini-clad coatracks, explosions galore and doofuses as main characters, and Bay, of what little he knows about movies, knows this. He sprinkles sugar on chunky, shit-filled dog vomit and tells you it's chocolate mousse. And what do you care? "It's just a movie?" "Turn your brain off when you watch it?" So says the folks whose brains have never been turned on!

    SO HAY, DON'T FORGET TO INSULT THOSE OF US WHO HATE THIS MOVIE BECAUSE WE ENJOY WELL-MADE FILMS WHERE THE DIRECTOR ACTUALLY PUT SOME EFFORT INTO THE FINAL PRODUCT. YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO BE LUMPED IN WITH THOSE LOSERS, AMIRITE?
     
  19. jonatron26

    jonatron26 Well-Known Member

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    autobots were tired of always being on the defensive. this time they are attacking first.


    besides demolisher= mindless killing machine.
     
  20. Dran0n

    Dran0n junk male

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    Exactly.
     
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