So, why did the relic hunt have to happen?

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by Robosquad, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Cha Chi

    Cha Chi Minimondomayhem

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    Yeah, i thought Starcscream in the wild lasted long enough and was pretty good. He went from desperate to pathetic to cunning to bad-ass.

    The relic hunt was drawn out a touch but for the most part i enjoyed it. Yeah, it being long and a bit seemingly inconsequential at times meant the Star Saber was all the more radical. These last two episodes were good/exciting but the good guys lost, so it's a Empire Strikes Back, cliffhanger or should i say cliffexploder kind of feel. Also got my grumbles... I'm with Ratchet when he's like, the kids WTF.

    Mech was cool when first introduced, but i can't say i've been that interested in them since.

    In terms of suits meddling with creatives, Hasbro messing with the writers, I don't think it has always yielded a bad result. Quite the opposite. I loved that Megs was like, cart this fool off and dispense with him. That was pretty cool. Beast Hunters doesn't have to be bad either. When they killed off G1 OP in the movie, it wasn't so much that Prime had died but more like the show/story that we followed had died. I missed the story after the movie and not so much Prime himself. Rodimus messing around with Quintessons and whatever else was dull(to me).
     
  2. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    :lolol  I actually laughed out loud for real when I read that.

    I still maintain that as badly written as it was, Superlink is still better than Prime. Superlink. Prime just can't stand up to episodes like, "Return of MegaZarak", which managed to change the tone of the series by providing a real backstory and motivation to one of the villains so the audience finally understood why they were doing what they were doing, change the motivations of two of the heroes to be more meaningful and less "adventurous" by giving them a real cause to fight for, deepen a relationship between a hero and a villain, reveal a dark secret that has a major impact on the universe (about Unicron), and provide the burst of momentum to lead into the final stretch of the series. It also tied into almost half the series as payoff for viewing. (And not only did Energon not bother to dub this episode and skip it entirely, but they actively dubbed around all those plot points.)

    Superlink has a lot of flaws, but one thing it did do was take multi-episode plot threads and make them relevant to the overall series. Not once did you wonder why you bothered to watch some sort of development to occur and it go no where in order for something else to happen.

    So, no. Superlink and Cybertron are both preferable to Prime IMHO.
     
  3. Jive Guru

    Jive Guru Professional Amateur

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    They spend all season collecting stuff, and in the last episode leave it all behind on Cybertron, except for Optimus' Sword. (and the Forge of Solus Prime) rendering it all pointless.

    YAY!
     
  4. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Well, what was the point of bringing Bulkhead that close to death to begin with? People wanted an Autobot to die that wasn't Cliffjumper or any of those other generic guys who were nothing more than name drops, because it really does feel wrong that the Decepticons keep getting interesting guys who eventually die, while Team Prime literally just stays static to the point they don't even add Wheeljack to the group despite there not really being a good justification for him NOT to be part of the group. Heck, people were speculating Bulkhead's death was going to make room for Wheeljack, seeing as how they were both Wreckers, but nope, all it does is lead Miko down a path of more stupidity and revenge to eliminate the most unique insecticon in the show.

    But he's pretty much dead at this point, it's a given. If he wasn't going to get killed then why was he sent off for Disection after getting electrocuted in the back to prevent him trying to escape? Is he going to have an armed bomb put in his head or something?

    Grill serves no purpose whatsoever no matter how you watch the season, except maybe establishing the laser satellite exists for later, but that's a sucky single reason to justify wasting an entire episode just for a clip show and to explain why Nemesis Prime is no longer relevant.

    True, considering how they're implying the hell out of it that he supposedly DID die, what with the hand under the rubble and all. Unless this is the point they do the usual "Prime dies and later gets resurrected" schtick in every continuity.

    Is it wrong that I would like Prime to shake things up a bit with the Decepticons by making Soundwave the true mastermind in a disguise of being a subordinate?

    Must have missed that, but yeah, if they were at ground zero then they're toast. For all that they were played up as, the "Relics" were mostly nothing more than just individual pieces of super technology. But then that just leaves the Forge (addressed below) and the Blaster, and the latter is just a special gun that doesn't actually do anything special besides shoot unique projectiles, no exploitation of any Autobot weaknesses or anything.

    Enh, I guess if the Autobots somehow still have it then they could explain it, but it's still relatively useless without Optimus.
     
  5. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    You say people as if it is some sort of majority. I don’t know who started it, but I think a lot of the “people” you’re referring to took whoever’s post that stated an Autobot would die this season as a fact and got pissed when it didn’t happen.

    To answer your initial question: to show how precious life is and what it means to us perhaps. Bulkhead, putting his life one the line, showed us his love for his team, what he was willing to do for them, and in turn his teammates and friends showed us equal in temperament and determination.

    We got to see what it meant to be a Wreker and what Wrekers are willing to do for their kind—a Transformers show first, as far as I know.

    Best of all, Miko learned that revenge doesn’t make things better or right.
    Who said anything about Silas returning? I said MECH, not Silas. I saw Silas as a field commander, not the actual top dog. Someone funded Colonel Leland Bishop and the organization he represented. I think that someone(s) are pretty high up in government.

    The DyNGUS, Project Damocles, experimental military helicopters and planes can’t be coincidences. The Arrival of the Transformers, their escalating war and a world in peril would most likely divided the US government. Seeing how the D.O.D. has appointed the Autobots a liaison, Optimus convinced them to follow his lead—Agent Fowler reminds us of this unmentioned agreement every time he’s called in to contain or clean up an area, POTUS is on board. However, some other folks in government and elsewhere perhaps, given the fact that MECH is out to create a new world order, see things differently. They’ve taken it upon themselves to interject themselves into the mix, taking advantage of the military knowledge and weaponry, and have used it to their advantage. MECH has so much potential, Silas cannot be the end of them.

    Grill showed us that Silas was from the American military, as were his men.

    Except Season One disc interviews state that dead characters will stay dead;)  A base destroyed, the Autobots on the run and a leader down, is a very powerful image. Hope is lost…or is it?

    No, but you must agree that this notion of Soundwave being the true head of the Decepticon is sever wishful thinking. You expect Transformers Prime to go 52 plus episodes for some distant big revel, showing Soundwave to be the true leader?! Seriously?
    What the show called relics was first introduced as cultural artifacts. Iacon, was the home of Cultural Artifacts and confiscated WMD, which were primarily of Decepticon creation—the ones we saw were all of Decepticon creation. The only relics (in season two) were the Forge of Solus and the Starsaber; everything, else was confiscated Decepticon war toys.

    Opitmus will be back. And the Autobots will be back. The road back will be a hard one. The Forge won’t make it easy by any means, as it cannot create life, but it would make things a bit easier, as it would give them the means to create things not of this world—their base had Cybertronain technology mixed with human. With no ship or possessions of their own really, they’re going to need a little something to help them rebuild. The Forge can do that.

    The Forge of Solus, I assume, has the same properties as the Starsaber, a protective force field, protecting it from destruction.
     
  6. Robosquad

    Robosquad Well-Known Member

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    I hope this is true. MECH was one of the most interesting new elements Prime brought to the table. And in a series that seems to prioritize its humans, Jack and Silas being set up as the human Optimus and Megatron respectively was the kind of B-plot that should have carried the series to its climax.

    Yet with a truncated third season, a thematic change, and what for all intents and purposes seems to have been a farewell episode for MECH and Silas, I don't see any of that coming back.

    Which is a shame, and just so symptomatic of Prime's shortcomings and baffling decisions. Again, if not for one minor element easily achieved in a number of ways, you could cut nearly every scene of MECH from the series and not miss a beat.

    Ditto Starscream going rogue, for those saying, "Well, it lasted long enough, didn't it?"

    Sure; it lasted a while. But if you cut his rogue misadventures from the show and just had him or the Decepticons obtain the keys in some other way, would it make any difference? Did his absence change the situation changed dramatically from where it was before he left? Hardly. He popped up in a subplot or two in inessential roles. It was entertaining, but if it all builds to nothing ... what's the point? Not everything needs gravitas (I don't particularly have a problem with Breakdown's death, for example), but not everything needs to be given its own grandiose B-plot only to go out with a wet fart either. Prime is so at odds with itself. It's awkward and distracting.
     
  7. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    So true.

    I don't know about this. Starscream, Airachnid, and Knockout showed us all that was wrong with the Decepticons, how their were those in it for themselves. No honor (or very, very little) among them. It took Soundwave, Skyquake and Dredwing to show us that there were some truly devoted Decepticons--they weren't just blindly following Megatron, but agreed with his agenda and grand vision for Cybertron.

    Megatron's betrayal values caused Dredwing to leave their cause, but even in the end, the Decepticon's values were closer to his own than the Autobots'.

    Anyway, I enjoyed Starscreams time away. Try as he might to be his own Cybertronian, living off the land, deep down, he's a Decepticon to the core. He sees that now, and I don't ever see him wavering again. The Decepticons are united, and with are the in-fighting behind them, Megatron can focus on grander visions for the future.

    Optimus and the Autobots sure have their work cut out for them.

    With the Autobots truly stranded on Earth and the Decepticons controlling Cybertron and the Space bridges, as well as Peter Cullen and Frank Welker, Transformers Prime is shaping up to truly be a G1 do over with a bit of a live-action twist.
     
  8. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    I think it was the fact one of the seasonal breaks began with Bulkhead flying out of the Ground Bridge into a faceplant with a crater sized hole in his back. It was the closest any Autobot had come to death at that point, emphasized by the cut and how the same end scene was used for TWO episodes back to back, and yet despite being exposed to a highly volitile and dangerous substance and given a shot that would have killed most Autobots in the back, he eventually makes a full recovery, rendering all of that hype moot.

    That message PROBABLY would have been better conveyed in a situation where all the other members of Team Prime were around and in immediate danger. Here, all he did was throw some goop into a volcano and get shot. The kicker is that it's implied that may have not been the only sample of Tox-en, so of all the "relics" during the 4-episode split, Bulkhead nearly died while disposing of the one the Decepticions could have worried the least about because there might have been more of it somewhere else anyway.

    Actually, Wreckers are more of a suicide commando squad who exist specifically to do the most dangerous and stupidly impossible missions. While true, this is the first time Wreckers are a cannon group in the show, it's nothing more than a name drop that's interchangeable with "marines" or something like that, and naturally I fully expect every other member of Team Prime to have done the same thing that Bulkhead did in that situation, because it's for the greater good or somesuch.
    Yeah, because this is Transformers: Humans, where we care more about the human kids who happen to have been drawn into the war instead of the giant alien robots actually fighting it.

    Fair enough...except for one rather major detail. If MECH supposedly had so much secret government backing, then WHY did they use a compromised base with a big freaking hole in the wall to rebuild Silas? I'd think they'd have access to some kind of underground bunker or something as an emergency lair instead of having to rely on damaged property.
    Except they're all dead at this point because Silas killed them. Moot point.

    Optimus Prime CAN be the exception, because outside of RID he actually has in fact died at least once before getting resurrected. No exceptions. (The original dub of RID, Car Robots, had the leader be Fire Convoy, not intended to be made into another version of Optimus Prime. Hence, no deaths)

    Also, that's kind of an ironic statement considering zombies tend to be a reoccurring theme in this show.

    While true, it is wishful thinking, it sure as hell would make a good plot twist. And also be ironic considering Starscream spends so much time trying to overthrow the wrong guy.

    But they referred to the whole collection of items as relics regardless.

    Except the part where the Forge can't do it's technomagic stuff without being wielded by a Prime, and I'm pretty sure Optimus is NOT in a position to use it for a long, long time. We don't even know where it is, so we can't even really assume it's with Bulkhead or any Autobot at this point.
     
  9. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Disagree. The status quo isn't the base--that's just a place. It's what happens in and around that base. It's winning or losing a relic, returning to base, and repeating the cycle again next week. The rarely broken one-relic-per episode formula increases the sense of normalcy and almost ritual rules of how the story "works." It's like the sequence of forming Voltron at the climax of every episode. When a monster appers that stops the lions from combining, it's startling because that's not how it's supposed to happen. If the combination and subsequent killing of the monster hadn't happened ad-nauseum and without fail up to that point, interrupting Voltron's combination would have seemed like an obvious thing to do. It's an old device in storytelling for children, which is still a major target audience for this show.

    As for the other things the season "could have been," I'd still rank it above the first Season of Beast Wars (to which this season has many parallels) in every last one of those categories. As TF shows go, that's no small accomplishment.
     
  10. Robosquad

    Robosquad Well-Known Member

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    Re: Starscream's defection.

    All right. Maybe it did serve a purpose. I still say it feels a little irrelevant and inconsequential, but it's not a huge gaffe. I suppose it did play a role in shaping the Decepticon dynamic, however that develops.

    Man, I wish this were "Transformers: Humans." It's been at its best when focused on them (in a way that doesn't involve Raf hacking the government like it ain't no thang).

    But it hasn't been hitting high notes on that front either. After sending Jack to Cybertron, they cut MECH short (and again, I feel this does a disservice to the human kids as well), and Miko's supposed development has been ... not much. We've barely seen her since the revenge stint. Jack's mom, who provided a really interesting dynamic at the end of the first season, has pretty much been MIA for the past twenty-six episodes.

    It's still one of the stronger elements though, and certainly not beyond redemption. I just really hope the kids start getting some of their arcs fulfilled next season.
     
  11. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    However many Character Development Tokens are awarded to A/E/C, I have difficulty imagining one of those shows, from what little I've seen of them, producing a scene such as Miko and Arcee's conversation, or Ratchet's denunciation of Optimus, or Unicron's castigation of Megatron.

    Plus I'm really digging the fact that "ill-thought soft reboot that Etch-A-Sketches everything into oblivion" doesn't happen every year.

    As far as the relic hunt, I did tire of it, though Alpha Trion made me like the whole thing more. At the very least it was more visually dynamic than the usual squabbling over energon, and allowed a large number of distinct-feeling episodes to all amplify the big season-end arc.

    This post did not deserve to get ignored.
     
  12. Ironhide1706

    Ironhide1706 Elessar Telcontar

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    Honestly speaking, one could watch Darkness Rising then Darkest Hour and they would be set. The only thing they'd need to know is that Knock Out and Smokescreen joined. The comparison is eerily similar to the movie trilogy.
     
  13. Skywarp2413

    Skywarp2413 Well-Known Member

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    On the topic of the would-be Trypticon, who's to say he isn't reactivated and the Decepticons just let him have a field day on human cities? His robot form is basically Mecha-Godzilla after all. That could fit with the beast hunting spiel they've got going in season 3.

    No offense, but dear God in Heaven I hope this isn't true. I've hated MECH since they were introduced and that condescending "leader" Silas got what was coming to him. His followers defiled Breakdown's body by infusing the two together and I hope Knockout dissects him piece by piece for a sense of payback.

    .....You know, for kids!
    Now that you mention it, I don't recall them showing Bulkhead transform. They could've stuffed the Forge in the back seat :lol 
    Probably instantly. As far as we know Decepticons can't track comm-link conversations.
    EDIT: They can. Didn't remember the pilot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  14. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    But isn't that how Soundwave figured out the Autobots were in Nevada back in the pilot? By listening in on the comm conversation between Arcee and CJ?
     
  15. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

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    Correct; Soundwave is capable of tapping their com-links and listening in/tracking them. He can't trace their conversations to the base, but if they're outside it, he can.

    For this reason, I'd assume the Autobots won't radio each other; if they did, Soundwave would sniff them out in seconds without the protection of their base.
     
  16. LordPrime

    LordPrime Dark Lord

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    I didn't even notice there were so many MacGuffin episodes. :tongue: 
     
  17. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    You thought he was dead or dying? Unlike all other characters whose eyes webt dark after suffering a fatal blow, Bulkhead's eyes were bright and very blue. This was clear when he came through the Ground Bridge and remained the same as he hit the floor.

    I disagree. Had Megatron got hold of the Tox-En things would have ended very badly for the Autobots very quickly. Fowler and Bulkhead went back and forth talking about honor, duty and service. The sacrifice he was ready to make was pretty powerful as it was.

    It wad a Bulkhead centered story. What did you expect? While I agree that anyone on Team Prime would have done what Bulkhead did, it should be acknowledged that Bulkhead isn't a Wrecker any more, he's a member of Team Prime; there isn't a mission any of them would hesitate to do or decline.

    Anyway, Hurt was a look into the life of a Wrecker, a soldier's tale--not just a name drop. First time viewers saw what it meant to be a Wrecker. Moreover, Agent Fowler and two ton bonded, which was a nice surprise given the fact that Agent Fowler didn't Particularly respect him all that much. I found the episode quite effective.


    You must be new to the Transformers. Humans have been playing big roles in stories since '84! This isn't a new concept.

    If MECH had a secret backing it makes sense that they would operate in the shadows, ghost towns or rundown factories or the like--they weren't trying to draw attention to themselves. Don't forget that MECH operatives shielded their faces, protecting their identities.

    Are they though? Silas killed his men.

    I don't see how MECH could function on a colonel's salary.

    Why would he be the exception--this isn't any other Transformer show--the people behind the show said that death is permanent.

    You and I define living quite differently. The Terrorcons were an extension of their masters will. They are not sentient beings.

    They did indeed. It's more convenient to say "relics" than call them by their specific classifications, and seeing how the more recent ones were confiscated at the height of the civil war, calling them relics may be factually correct:p 

    I was implying otherwise;) 

    EDIT:

    Probably another reason why Optimus had them paired up with respective children. They all have cell phones, an archaic service compared to Cybertronian tech, but perhaps one that'll give them the boost they are really going to need.
     
  18. KikBlava

    KikBlava Well-Known Member

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    Looking back at some of the rushed storylines in Prime, it reminded me of how rushed of a conclusion it was in Beast Wars with the Vok. I also remember quite a few rushed concepts in Transformers Animated and how the Constructicons were shoehorned into it so much. Also I'm reminded of the rushed season 2 ending of My Little Pony. Remember the recent episode of Doctor Who and how childish, sloppy and rushed it was?

    Anyway I wouldn't defend Prime's flaws because it has a lot of them but to me they still manage to make up for it with more good episodes than bad in this season. At the very least we can confirm that there is way more character development in this series than in the movies.
     
  19. Jamocha101

    Jamocha101 Well-Known Member

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    I keep feeling like the writers believe that they only need to write out short-term concepts that either revolve around, or otherwise utilize a character (perhaps as a MacGuffin), to have the credentials that they did "develop" them, and thereby think they're "done."

    Orion Pax? Past is explained, got Jack some spotlight, yep! Done with those two!

    We gave Bumblebee a whole two episodes, voice box origin and everything! Done with him!

    Arachnid is in stasis, enough with Arcee!

    Bulkhead almost died, alright, no need to focus on him any more! And we're done with Miko, too!

    Raf almost died, he's finished up!

    Arcee said she thought of her team as "family" in the very beginning, so we don't really have to focus on inter-team dynamics, the viewers will take her word for it!

    Nobody has reason to believe any of these things will be brought up in the future.
     
  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Didn't see the eyes, to busy paying attention to the smoking hole in his back.

    Considering how easily Megatron nuked the Autobot base once he'd finally found it, and the fact that without Prime he could team wipe all the other Autobots at once in under 10 minutes, I doubt Tox-En would have actually made a difference in the long run since the Autobots are constantly at a disadvantage and only stay alive through plot contrivance and heavy amounts of plot armor. I'll give you the talk Bulk had with Fowler, though, that at least was interesting to a degree.

    Saying he's not a Wrecker anymore is like saying I'm not a Boy Scout anymore. We may not be parts of those groups anymore, but that doesn't mean we completely drop who we are as a result of being parts of those groups simply because we're part of another. In Bulkhead's case, he's just gone from one group of soldiers to another, not that different really.

    I'll admit I didn't like Hurt to much simply because I can't stand Miko, so I'll have to rewatch it and try to ignore her to get a better grasp of what you're talking about.

    Except Miko never, ever, EVER changes, and the lesson was completely wasted on her since even if she was at the volcano, what the hell would she have done? She can't block energy shots, and I'm sure just being in proximity of Tox-en would have killed her.

    Then again, maybe she should have been at the volcano for that exact reason.

    Still doesn't explain why they reused the base from Operation Bumblebee, considering it's got a big gaping hole in it, and those were some loud noises coming from their powering up of CyLAS.

    Considering Silas was MECH's leader, even with government backing any remaining traces of the organization would be leaderless. Plus, if Agent Fowler has the power to put Nemesis Prime in a secret, undisclosed location, I'm pretty sure any rogue elements in the government would have access to the same. I mean, they're in NEVADA, the U.S. Government has secret testing facilities all over the place, the Autobots even used a decommissioned Missile Silo as a home, certainly there was some other abandoned facility MECH could have used that at least didn't have the HVAC compromised.

    Maybe he sold war materials to supplement his salary, and then later killed his old friend to keep the secret buried.

    (Bonus points to whoever gets the reference).

    More realistically, maybe Silas was just one hell of a rich bastard, like Cobra Commander from GIJOE: Renegades.

    Because it's Optimus Prime. What better way to generate tension than to kill off the leader only to later bring him back? The only continuity who didn't exploit that so far with an Optimus was Animated simply so they could get it out of the way early on since he's dead for all of five minutes.
    And at what point was that explained in the show?

    But they also treated them as old, ancient crap as well. "Relics" implies ancient stuff of great power, aside from the Swords, Omega stuff, and the Forge, everything else was just a confiscated weapons locker dumped on Earth.

    You honestly think Soundwave can't track cellphone calls when real life governments can with current technology? It's been demonstrated numerous times with Soundwave that he interfaces extremely well with human technology once plugged in, since the VLA is essentially a suitable substitute for the Nemesis' navigation computer, and the Autobot base itself.

    Which really raises the question of why the hell they needed CyLAS to use the laser satellite in the first place considering how Mr. Hispanic Jimmy Neutron made a top secret orbital laser platform pull a GoldenEye from nothing but a standard laptop and internet connection.

    Hence my reasoning for why character development is almost non existent in this show, they rush it so fast just to get it out of the way for more "epic" stuff and never comment on it again. EVER.