So where DID gender go?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by GWolfv2, Feb 20, 2015.

  1. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    At this point, with the words of Galvatron, the confirmed existence of Solus, the female protester in the alternate timeline and the fact that the Camiens are dual-gendered, it's safe to say gender used to be a part of the normal Cybertronian life 10 million years ago. So what do you think happened to make Cybertron monogendered.

    My initial idea is that Nova or perhaps the functionalist council decided that gender has no purpose in a species that doesn't reproduce sexually. They may have found a way to alter the pulses of Vector Sigma so that it no longer produces female sparks. That is to say it didn't erase both genders but made it so all Transformers are born male. But that does raise the question of why Jhiaxus created Arcee. Was it a sanctioned experiment or something he did on the sly?

    Your thoughts/explanations?
     
  2. Purple Heart

    Purple Heart Some other time..

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    I think I remember Galvatron saying they were killed off.
    And even if he didn't I'm inclined to believe that they were pretty early on.
    (I'd assume Nova never knew of their existence despite once knowing Galvatron.)

    Since Galvatron was hell bent on killing the the Headmasters I'd dare say he killed all the female Tramsformers too, or maybe Megatronus Prime himself did that after his fallout with Solus Prime. I could see Galvatron more though, and he's only teaming with Arcee because Combiners are the bigger threat. (Literally, lol.)


    Since we also know the 13 went their seperate ways I think Solus landed on a planet with Caminus, them he created Cybertronians/Camien sparks in both his and her image.


    Galvatron could be lying though, he doesn't have much cred to prove he isn't really.
     
  3. Bass X0

    Bass X0 Captain Commando

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    There is no such thing as physical male and female Transformers. They are just labels we use to identify similar personality traits that Transformers have with Humans.
     
  4. Jalaguy

    Jalaguy has no known physical weaknesses

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    Well, we know that hot spots began to ignite less and less frequently on Cybertron - maybe the sparks they produced also became more and more homogeneous over time, leading to women and beasts and whatnot becoming less and less common until all new forged Cybertronians were blokes who turned into machinery?

    Another thought I'd had a while ago was whether maybe the Thirteen themselves somehow influenced the kind of sparks that were born from hot spots - though we admittedly don't really know to what degree the IDW Thirteen are the typical demigods, or if they're just normal folk.

    But yeah, so if they are special somehow, maybe Caminus's planet was Solus Prime's final resting place, and her influence somehow caused the hot spot there to start producing female sparks again. And then that would also be why they worship her there. (And I guess the Regenesis Ore there could be one of the inert ones?)

    Hmm? Windblade and now ex-RID have made it pretty clear that gender is an actual trait as acknowledged by the Transformers themselves.
     
  5. grindcore138

    grindcore138 TIME TO DELIVER A PIZZA BALL!

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    They all up and friendzoned all the male Cybertronians – who were really nice to them, by the way – and left the planet for a bunch of jerks who didn't even hold a door open for them this one time!
     
  6. NoiseMaker

    NoiseMaker Well-Known Member

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    In bringing out the different genders, and identifying them as different in context, by having the various characters starting that there is a difference in story - the creative teams are stating there IS a fundamental difference between male and female transformers. Exactly what it is and why it is, I think, doesn't really matter.

    The concept of Hot spots/forging/cold construction neatly side-steps the messy issues of procreation and keeps them alien - which I like a lot.

    IF Galvatron isn't outright lying, then gender did exist on Cybertron however many millions of years ago, but then disappeared. So, going on from the OP, how did it disappear? Did they all leave/go into hiding? Or were they all killed off? Id say that there are only those two options.

    Either way, without them, their society became increasingly divided and unbalanced, and descended into total war - is that coincidence?

    Anyway - what happened? Id think that there was a supremacist of one type or another that (almost ) managed to turn Cybertronians into a single 'type' somewhere in yhe very distant past.
     
  7. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    The fact Arcee was altered on a genetic level and can't simply be put into a masculine body (she's changed forms 3 times in IDW), not to mention the dual gendered Camiens, kinda argues against that. Plus, the idea you can introduce gender into the genderless makes less sense than re-introducing it into a monogendered species. Presumably male transformers, like all males, have the basal blueprint for females somewhere in their genome, all you gotta do is Jurassic Park it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  8. Mort

    Mort Apostate

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    My thoughts are that sex and gender are being used interchangeably which isn't helping.
     
  9. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

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    Please explain.
     
  10. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    I kind of gather that myself.
     
  11. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    Well you can't apply sex to TFs in the IDW universe but there is a biological basis for gender identity in many cases. Not to mention gender and gender identity aren't quite the same thing. So here I'm specifically referencing the biological gender conept, rather than discussing gender identity in IDW.

    To be 100% honest...not entirely bothered which term you use, as I think we all at least understand its execution in IDW without needing to complicate it with the real world minutia.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  12. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

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    Um... you guys do realize we're talking about Transformers, right?
     
  13. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    You're new to the affect Windblade and MTMTE have had in the last few years aren't ya?

    Without derailing this topic, shifts in attitudes and readership have brought the complexity of sex, gender, gender identity and gender representation to the forefront of a lot of TF discussion
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  14. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

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    I've heard of some of the arguments on other boards. I thought it best to avoid the entire situation. Too many hurt feelings over something that doesn't really matter in the real scheme of things.

    LMAO!
     
  15. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

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    Oh. I like the implications that appear in the narrative, but as far as talking about it with other fans? No thanks. There always seems to be too much real world baggage that is brought along with the discussion. When people start nit-picking pronoun usage it's time to step away from the conversation.
     
  16. Mort

    Mort Apostate

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    Well, it is important to understand your question. So you're asking about biological gender, which I call sex. My interpretation has been that Cybertronians and Camians don't have biological gender as far as we know and there is nothing to distinguish a he from a she on that level, with the exception of Arcee who we are told has been specifically altered.

    The reason I don't think there is a biological distinction is because of the recent Nautica spark type business, where JRo went out of his way to show that there is nothing different between her and everyone else. That's not to say that we won't find out later that there is something that distinguishes Camians, and hence why they identify with the female pronoun, but as it stands, it's not there.

    What you call gender ID, which I call gender, definitely does exist as we've seen.

    Back to Galvatron, as he's talking to Arcee and referring specifically to the biological experimentation, I take it he's talking about sex/biological gender. So as to your question, like someone else said, I think they were all killed or killed off.
     
  17. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

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    Yikes! And with that I'm out!
     
  18. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    This seems like kinda of an easy one. I thought the female transformers were part of the tribe of Solus Prime and I believe that the one's that survived the tribal wars had left Cybertron ultimately to colonize/establish a planet named Caminus.

    Or am I missing something?
     
  19. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    That works until you realise there's male camiens (we see at a male city speaker for example). Was actually my original idea when Solus was mentioned but if it was the case, you'd still need a reason why no females have been forged since the Prime's exodus.
     
  20. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    The only problem with that idea, and it's one I've had myself, is that it would explain everything but why no more were born. Unless it was something like Solus' presence on the planet allowed female sparks and when she left her influence disappeared. But the thirteen seem less deified this time round. Hence my thoughts about Vector Sigma being modified on some basic level.